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Calling small pocket pairs (poker)

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Calling small pocket pairs (poker)

Postby eftda » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:16 pm

Like everyone here, I love to call small pocket pairs in poker. Anything 7 and under. I have a problem of calling in early position, getting raised, then calling again. At what point do you guys fold your low pocket pairs pre-flop?
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Postby so0perspam » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:32 pm

Anything 6's and below I'll fold in early position, and call the BB mid and late position. If I get raised, I'll easily lay them down. 7's and 8's I'll call early position normally and probably fold when raised. I'll play my 9's-J's situationally (position, tendency of the better, bet size, my stack size, players left in the SNG or tournament). One thing you have to know is that you don't want to put your chips at risk on a coinflip, and a PP under 9's and 10's are usually at a coinflip with 2 overcards like AK, AQ, or KQ.
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Postby wrveres » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:32 pm

it depends mostly upon the pot value.

I have no set rules with any hand
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Postby so0perspam » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:36 pm

wrveres wrote:it depends mostly upon the pot value.

I have no set rules with any hand


Pot odds you mean? That only applies when there are multiple callers before you are to act really, because if you're the first possible caller you won't be getting the pot odds (2-1 or 2.5-1 most likely) to justify a call.
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Postby pokerplaya » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:37 pm

so0perspam wrote:Anything 6's and below I'll fold in early position, and call the BB mid and late position. If I get raised, I'll easily lay them down. 7's and 8's I'll call early position normally and probably fold when raised. I'll play my 9's-J's situationally (position, tendency of the better, bet size, my stack size, players left in the SNG or tournament). One thing you have to know is that you don't want to put your chips at risk on a coinflip, and a PP under 9's and 10's are usually at a coinflip with 2 overcards like AK, AQ, or KQ.


Pretty well said...the key to low pocket pairs as I'm sure you're aware is that when you hit a set, they are easily disguised and can often win you a big pot when you are up against an overpair.

So there value lies in the payoff you get when you do hit your set (about 1 in every 8 flops)...so I generally limp with them, and don't mind playing them heads up...but I try to get away from them if I'm investing more than 10% of my chips in a tourney. In a cash game, it depends on a lot more variables...but that's generally how I see them.
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Postby wrveres » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:39 pm

so0perspam wrote:
wrveres wrote:it depends mostly upon the pot value.

I have no set rules with any hand


Pot odds you mean? That only applies when there are multiple callers before you are to act really, because if you're the first possible caller you won't be getting the pot odds (2-1 or 2.5-1 most likely) to justify a call.


understood ;-D

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Postby joshyboy72 » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:48 pm

No matter what the pair is I will usually call pre-flop. I play in mostly low stakes games with buddies and there are a lot of hands where there are no pre-flop raises, so it's easy to limp in with a low pair for a cheap price and maybe hit a set on the flop. Even in early position.

I will usually not call any legitimate raise with 2's through 5's, but it all depends on the circumstances...the amount of chips you have, the amount of chips he has, the size of the pot and raise, how people around you have been playing, etc.
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Postby so0perspam » Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:02 pm

joshyboy72 wrote:I will usually not call any legitimate raise with 2's through 5's, but it all depends on the circumstances...the amount of chips you have, the amount of chips he has, the size of the pot and raise, how people around you have been playing, etc.


Well the circumstances would have to be real extreme, like your opponent being extremely short stacked and you having a dominant stack. I'm speaking in SNG and tournament play of course, but for example if you're 6-handed and in 2nd, you don't want to risk moving down in money to 4th or 5th on a 44 vs. 910s situation where you're actually a 53/46 underdog.
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Postby laxguy8947 » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:42 pm

so0perspam wrote:
joshyboy72 wrote:I will usually not call any legitimate raise with 2's through 5's, but it all depends on the circumstances...the amount of chips you have, the amount of chips he has, the size of the pot and raise, how people around you have been playing, etc.


Well the circumstances would have to be real extreme, like your opponent being extremely short stacked and you having a dominant stack. I'm speaking in SNG and tournament play of course, but for example if you're 6-handed and in 2nd, you don't want to risk moving down in money to 4th or 5th on a 44 vs. 910s situation where you're actually a 53/46 underdog.


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Postby Madison » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:37 am

so0perspam wrote:
wrveres wrote:it depends mostly upon the pot value.

I have no set rules with any hand


Pot odds you mean? That only applies when there are multiple callers before you are to act really, because if you're the first possible caller you won't be getting the pot odds (2-1 or 2.5-1 most likely) to justify a call.


Almost all of my play has been cash game $2/$5 no limit lately, and if you're looking at straight pot odds preflop, you'll never call with any pocket pair of less than 10 preflop because you will not have the 8.5 to 1 ratio you need in order to make the call.

That's turning away easy money though, as it's not the exact pot odds on the table you should be looking at in that situation. Don't misunderstand, I'm well aware that pot odds are one of the most important things in Hold 'Em, and pot odds dictate most every play. This is just one of the situations where you have to look at it a bit differently.

Say for example I'm UTG with 4/4 in a $2/$5 NL game with a stack around $500. I call the $5 without any difficulty whatsoever. Then someone in mid or late position raises to $20 total. My first question is how big is his stack? If it's tiny, I don't mind a $50 coinflip in that spot. If it's $250+, then there are my pot odds as I need to take $170 off of him to get my pot odds. Anything between $75 to $200 in front of him, and I probably wouldn't waste my time because there's no guarantee I could keep him in the hand if I flopped my set and it's not worth the risk.

Took down a very nice pot awhile back with 5/5. Called the $23 preflop off the small blind ($2 small blind) with two others already in. Big blind called as well. Flop came out A/?/5 rainbow. I don't remember the "?", but it was a 7 or an 8, so it didn't scare me at all. Long story short, the initial raiser had A/K suited and I more than doubled up my stack that was just short of $900 ($886 if my math at the time was correct) which is significantly more than 8.5 to 1 on the $23 I called preflop.

I wouldn't call any crazy raises preflop with small pairs, just depends on the stakes we're talking about, chipstacks involved, and players.
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