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A Pirates Angels Earth Shaking deal....

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Postby mak1277 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:59 pm

jh2031 wrote:
johnsamo wrote:THink about it, 3 years from now, all those Pirates will be gone anyway... No way the Pirates have the bank to resign Bay....

Better too grab two possibly great pitchers and some good young prospects now.


The Pirates won't let Bay get away. I know they don't usually sign guys to big deals but he's too good to let go.



Agreed. If they won't/can't sign a guy like Bay, they should go ahead and fold up the franchise.
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Postby Geek » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:00 pm

This and the "Crawford on steroids" thread are examples of miserable headlines.
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Postby mak1277 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:01 pm

johnsamo wrote:When small markets team loses or trades very late their cheap star, they're basically wasting an asset. Oakland and Cleveland are very good at this sort of small market dillemma, that's why they are often contenders and in the series, the Pirates aren't and that's why they haven't been good since the days of Stargell and Parker.


Surely you're forgetting the 3 straight division titles in the early 90's?
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Postby jh2031 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:02 pm

johnsamo wrote:Pirate fans pretending they can keep Bay are living in an illusion with the big $ teams (and Bay's agent) just chomping at the bit to pounce when he hits free agency.

The Pirate fans have to be realistic. The Pirates basically have to try and be competitive by being like the A's or CLeveland. Build a good young farm system, either sign their future stars to long terms deals very early (too late for Bay) or trade your star guys a year or so before their due for free agency. Hope you can piece together enuf good young kids, the players you signed to long term deals early, and the occassional not too expensive veteran players to stay competitive and keep the turnstyles turning.

When small markets team loses or trades very late their cheap star, they're basically wasting an asset. Oakland and Cleveland are very good at this sort of small market dillemma, that's why they are often contenders and in the series, the Pirates aren't and that's why they haven't been good since the days of Stargell and Parker.


Haha, you're saying Pirates fans are crazy if they think Bay will stay in Pittsburgh...meanwhile you're throwing crazy trades out that include Bay/Craig/and Jack Wilson for guys that I have no interest in besides Ervin Santana. That trade would be a joke.
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Postby Amazing Oopah » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:08 pm

If you are trying to get Bay alone, I'm sure you can can come up with a more reasonable offer without having to throw in 100 players from the Angels side.
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Postby jh2031 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:08 pm

I have one more beef. You say Napoli would be an upgrade over the Pirates current catcher. Oh yeah, the one who's leading all NL catchers in AVG. and does a pretty good job with the pitching staff....oh, that Paulino guy. And I guess you never heard of Neil Walker, our cather of the future.
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Postby eazyb81 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:18 pm

One, I don't think the Pirates would trade Bay under any circumstances at this point....he is the best player they've had since Bonds.

Two, if you really wanted to get Bay, you would have to throw in more high ceiling prospects. Napoli, Saunders, etc. just wouldn't cut it.

It's so funny to see fans of big market teams make up ridiculous trade offers for young studs on small market teams, and then rationalize why said small market team has no choice but to trade him.....good stuff!

:-D
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Postby BritSox » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:22 pm

True, although that said, the Angels do have the guys down on the farm to hook a superstar if they were prepared to offer them, and not offer the likes of Aybar and a couple of scrubs for Manny or Saunders and Napoli for Bay as suggested often by their fans on here. I think Angels fans must be second only to Yankee fans in coming up with scenarios like that.

Btw- seriously, if the intent was for the pirates to save money, why would they take on an OK SS with a big deal like Ocab?
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Postby johnsamo » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:23 pm

When he's up for free agency, he's gone. A few years ago the Pirates had a chance to sign him long term realtively cheap for his prime years, but it's too late now. He's gonna finish his contract and then sign for a big market team for around $20 mill a year somewhere.

Managing baseball should be about businesss, i.e. managing assets over the long term, not a knee jerk "don't trade my favorite player" hobby. The Yankees can afford to make stupid decisions because they've got the $ to keep doing deals till they get one right.

The Pirates can't aford to do this, and they've already messed up once not signing him to a long term deal earlier, now they're going to do it again just so they can avoid the controversy of trading him. So the result is, in a few years they lose Bay and get nothing in return. But the fans will understand and blame the Yankees and the world for making an offer the Pirates could never match.

The A's never do this, that's why they're almost always in the race to the end. Do you think A's fans were happy losing Mulder or Hudson?.., No, but it's what allowed them to keep Chavez and Zito. A small market team has to pick their battles carefully and know not to get into a bidding war for their vets that they can't win.
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Postby Laean » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:25 pm

i'm an Angels fan, but this seems wishful thinking even to me.
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