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Postby LCBOY » Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:04 pm

Super GM wrote:
LCBOY wrote:I's say move the Expos to New York City. Yeah, I know the Yanks and Met's will complain but screw them. This would bring the Yankees back down to the pack in terms of TV revenue since the Expos would take some away. And New York can certainly take a third team.


Three teams in New York? C'mon that would be plain stupid! Having two teams is already an exception, but THREE? :-P I think Washington D.C. would be the best place for the Expos, either there or San Juan, Puerto Rico. ;-D


From 1901 to 1957 there were three teams in NY (Yankees, Giants, Dodgers) at it seemed to work fine. New Yourk City has a huge population and can easily handle three teams. Washington has already had two diferent teams and both moved out. San Juan? No. We don't need another Coors Field with evey game being 12-10. I despise "great hitters parks" like Coors Field, Minute Maid Park, and Great Amercia Ball Park. Too much cheap offense. :-t
Last edited by LCBOY on Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby LCBOY » Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:08 pm

Super GM wrote:Naah, I can't see Vlad going to the Giants. The Giants just took a big blow to their payroll by aquiring Sidney Ponson. I don't think they'll cough up the cash for Vlad....Alou or no Alou....


Ponson is a FA after this season. The Giants will not resign him after this season. Also, Snow's and Bernard's contracts finish after this season. The Giants will have a lot of money to spend.
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Postby pkarr5000 » Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:10 pm

plus aurilia
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Postby PresHabib » Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:46 pm

Three times in NYC from 01 to 57 is different than 3 teams in NY when one of them is put there in 2003. First, in 01, baseball was barely extended out of New England so it makes sense that the greatest metropolis of the area to have multiple teams because honestly, other than Boston and Philly there really werent any other options to put teams. Plus, since they had been around since the inception of baseball, there were on established fan bases, as there are now, thus having many teams close togeher meant a totally different thing. Also, (not that you mentioned this) the addition of the mets in 1962 was a way to make it up to fans of dodgers and giants in new york at the time and, thanks to the Miracle Mets of 69 that franchise has developed its own fan base, mainly from locals who WERE fans of the dodgers and the giants. Now, surely you must realize that adding the Expos to new york would create an entirely different scenario where two already well established fan bases would need to be divided, which would not happen. It is impossible to cite that 3 teams in 1901 is the same as 3 teams in 2003.

However, LCBoy, i do agree with you on the stupidiy of purely hitters parks. Coors field, cant really help that, its a big enough park, but theres no air there. The reason for offense there is science, not architecture. Minute maid is stupid in my mind altogether because of that dumbass hill in center. Great American SMallpark...its nice, but those fences need to bemoved...cheap offense is right! <img src=/forums/images/smiles/kiss.gif> What you may not know though, is that baseball officials entertaining the idea of moving the expos to that park in San Juan have insisted that the fences must be moved back, to avoid what we do not like, cheap offense. Just thought you should know ;-D

And Super GM, good answer, I just wanted to know what you thought. ;-D
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Postby mtarail » Wed Aug 13, 2003 9:11 pm

Re: Vlad. As a Giants fan I'd love him there, but he's got a snowballs chance of wearing a Giants uniform. The Giants simply won't give superstar $$ to anybody besides Barry. The
Giants look like big spenders sometimes but they're not even in the same league with the Yankees or Sox or even Mets when it comes to dishing out $ for players.

I honestly think he'll be wearing an Expo's uniform next year. He's just too great of a player to let go--he's better than RJ, Pedro, Andre Dawson, Larry Walker, or any other Expo star was at the time when they were traded, and even a team that's owned by the league will recognize that you can't just give away the biggest reason the Expos have fans right now.
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Postby wrveres » Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:05 pm

I honestly Think the Expos should play in Mexico. They would have a cult Following within in year. That could be huge market .. They could have tons of revenue.. .. The entire country would be walking around with "JB" on their lid and have no idea it actually meant "M"ontreal .. :-)
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Postby ramble2 » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:11 pm

The most likely place Vlad ends up is back with the Expos (or Mexpos, all things considered). I'd be shocked if he went to KC, that ownership group simply won't put up the dollars to get him. SF is clearing an awful lot of salary next year, and might be looking for a superstar to build the team around post-Barry. Sure it's a few years ahead of schedule, but Sabean and Magowan are smart folks and may pony up the dough. That said, I haven't heard any of the Bay Area or Sacramento sports radio folks talk about Vlad ending up in a Giants uniform. (Though whether that means anything is anyone's guess.)

Vlad hasn't given that many interviews, but in the few that I've read he certainly seems to enjoy being off the beaten path. I doubt he'd sign with a NY, LA or Boston team. But hell, it's not like I've ever spoken with the man about this, so who knows?!

Personally, I'd love to see the Expos make a permanent move to Mexico. I think it'd be great for the game. There'd be a huge fan base built up very quickly, and even with the relatively weak Peso they'd probably pull in more revenue than they do in Montreal. Baseball as a whole would also likely see a big revenue increase as they grow market share in Latin America.

The New York market could support a third team. A few years ago, one of the major economic analyses of baseball concluded (among other things) that the New York area was actually the BEST place to add a club. (It may have been the vaunted Blue Ribbon panel - does anyone else recall such a thing?) The club wouldn't be put in Brooklyn or Manhattan, though, but in New Jersey. Not being from the area, I have no idea whether NJ folks would quickly take to the Expos or not. I think NJ is a dark-horse candidate to be the new home, although Steinbrenner would put up the biggest bitchfest in the history of the country. To shut him up they'd probably have to give him half of the Expo's annual revenue - though they'd probably still make hand over fist more than they currently make in Montreal!

More selfishly I'd like to see the Expos go to Portland. I love that city, and plan on moving there in about three years. I'd love to be able to head to a downtown stadium and watch Vlad pop those balls in the Willamette. :-D It'll happen, too, if the legislators can figure out how to get a MLB ballpark built...
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Postby blankman » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:49 pm

ramble2 wrote: But hell, it's not like I've ever spoken with the man about this, so who knows?!

The New York market could support a third team. A few years ago, one of the major economic analyses of baseball concluded (among other things) that the New York area was actually the BEST place to add a club. (It may have been the vaunted Blue Ribbon panel - does anyone else recall such a thing?) The club wouldn't be put in Brooklyn or Manhattan, though, but in New Jersey. Not being from the area, I have no idea whether NJ folks would quickly take to the Expos or not. I think NJ is a dark-horse candidate to be the new home, although Steinbrenner would put up the biggest bitchfest in the history of the country. To shut him up they'd probably have to give him half of the Expo's annual revenue - though they'd probably still make hand over fist more than they currently make in Montreal!


The first statement is very true. Who knows what he is really thinking. Maybe money is more important to him than we think.

While there's no doubt that NY could financially split revenue with a 3rd team, I really doubt that they'd have a true fanbase to warrant their presence. Even if the team was in NJ, which would be nice for Mets fans from NJ, since seeing the Mets play a division rival would be easier travel-wise, I can't imagine that they could develop a very large fanbase. Not that it means much, but I can't think of anyone I know who would even think of switching teams (Yanks/Mets to Expos). In all likelyhood, the Expos will not be in the Tri-State area.
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Postby wrveres » Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:01 am

Monterrey courts home dates
By JEFF BLAIR
BASEBALL REPORTER
Tuesday, August 5, 2003 - Page S3
Hard bargaining is under way between several parties trying to settle the issue of where the Montreal Expos will play their home games next season and beyond. That includes a new group that wants to bring the team to Monterrey, Mexico.

Looking on warily are the 14 former limited partners of the Expos, who have threatened to file an injunction against Major League Baseball if it attempts to sell or move the club while the partners prepare for a pending arbitration hearing against former general partner Jeffrey Loria.

Jeffrey Kessler, the lawyer representing the former limited partners, held a series of meetings in Montreal this past weekend with some of his clients, and made clear that in addition to seeking an injunction preventing the sale or move of the team, he would also file an injunction should the club set up shop any place other than Montreal in 2004.

U.S. Federal Court Judge Ursula Ungaro-Benages granted a stay in racketeering charges that the limited partners brought against baseball officials last summer and also ordered baseball to give the Expos' former limited partners 90 days notice before selling or moving the club.

"We want the team to be in Montreal," Kessler said after he arrived there. "To move it some place else for a year is the same thing as relocating it."

Major League owners will meet next week in Boston, when they expect a briefing from a committee looking into the permanent relocation of the Expos, as well as an update on the status of the club for next season. Three potential permanent homes for the franchise (Northern Virginia, Washington and Portland) have yet to complete public financing for new ballparks, the first step toward gaining possession of the Expos, who are owned and operated by a limited partnership of the 29 other franchises. So, attention will turn to a temporary home for next season.

Baseball owners would like to maximize revenue from the Expos, since funding the club's losses costs each club about $1.5-million (all figures U.S.) a season and cuts into the shared revenue of other clubs. Baseball was guaranteed $7-million by San Juan, Puerto Rico, promoter Antonio Munoz Sr., for playing 22 of their 81 home games there this season. Munoz has already submitted another bid for 81 games.

Monterrey businessman Carlos Bremer is fronting a group that made a formal bid this past weekend to have the Expos play 81 games at the city's 27,000-seat stadium, which has been the site of four regular-season games since 1996.

Bremer, whose personal worth is $1.3-billion, was accompanied by Monterrey Mayor Felipe Cantu to a meeting on July 21 with Thomas Ostertag, baseball's chief legal counsel, and John McHale Jr., the executive vice-president of administration. Bremer plans to expand temporary capacity of the stadium in Monterrey to 30,000 seats if his proposal is accepted. He also has a plan to refurbish the stadium and increase its capacity to 40,000 if he succeeds in relocating the Expos permanently. The Major League Baseball Players Association has already announced it will not approve a split home schedule for the Expos next season, after a meeting in Montreal between Gene Orza, the union's No. 2 man, and the Expos players.

Catcher Brian Schneider, the Expos player representative, said reports that the players had already voted to play in San Juan "are just wrong, because nothing formal happened." But a players association source said that "the players were certainly polled" on the matter and that subsequent meetings will be held.

By and large, the players do not want to return to Montreal next season. But they have expressed concerns about the small, substandard clubhouse facilities at San Juan's Hiram Bithorn Stadium. The trainer's room barely fits two tables, which means players often receive attention in the hotel before heading to the park. There are other issues, such as taxes and allowances. Orza will negotiate these matters with baseball owners, who will negotiate with Munoz or the Monterrey group to ensure the promoters pick up all of the added expenses.

"The pros of playing in Montreal are that the facilities are better and we're familiar with the city, so it's easier for guys with families," Schneider said from Montreal in a telephone interview. "We don't have to worry about weather. There's no chance of a hurricane here, so there's no problem with having to play makeup games. There just isn't that familiarity in Puerto Rico. I'm not certain how guys would like leaving their families there for seven or eight days while we're on the road."

But Schneider was effusive in his praise of Puerto Rico.

"The games in Puerto Rico had more of a sense of excitement and, sometimes, more fans than games in Montreal," Schneider said. "It's obvious there's better revenue in Puerto Rico, which makes it easier to keep the team together. If it wasn't for those games in Puerto Rico this year, who knows? We might have had to move guys like Vlady [Vladimir Guerrero] and Javier Vazquez.

"This is just my opinion, but I believe that if there are any guys who are kind of on the border between staying in Montreal or going to Puerto Rico, the thing that will help them make up their mind is that we'll be able to compete better."

Schneider added ominously, "The people in Montreal have known for some time that this day was coming."

San Juan's biggest selling point is that its currency is the U.S. dollar. It is also an easier fit geographically than, say, Monterrey because the Expos play in the National League East Division. But at the game's highest levels, Monterrey, which is one of the most American of Mexican cities, has always been a favoured site for international expansion. Players union chief Donald Fehr favours an expanded international presence, and publicly supports the notion of currency equalization that could work for the Canadian dollar and the peso.



Just a little more food for thought .. again I think the Los Expos could be Huge .. The could play in "XX's Park" .. its all to perfect .. :-)
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Postby Guest » Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:58 am

PresHabib wrote:Also, (not that you mentioned this) the addition of the mets in 1962 was a way to make it up to fans of dodgers and giants in new york at the time and, thanks to the Miracle Mets of 69 that franchise has developed its own fan base, mainly from locals who WERE fans of the dodgers and the giants. Now, surely you must realize that adding the Expos to new york would create an entirely different scenario where two already well established fan bases would need to be divided, which would not happen. It is impossible to cite that 3 teams in 1901 is the same as 3 teams in 2003.
I would agree that in the beginning the Mets did draw the old Giants and Dodgers but today most Mets were born after the Giants and Dodgers left NY. It has been 46 years since they left so anybody under that age of 45 has no memory of the old Brooklyn Dodgers and NY Giants. The majority of baseball fans are casual fans. If the Expos moved to Brooklyn I truly believe the people around Brooklyn and the surrounding areas would embrace them as their own. I guess we can agree to disagree. ;-D

However, LCBoy, i do agree with you on the stupidiy of purely hitters parks. Coors field, cant really help that, its a big enough park, but theres no air there. The reason for offense there is science, not architecture. Minute maid is stupid in my mind altogether because of that dumbass hill in center. Great American SMallpark...its nice, but those fences need to bemoved...cheap offense is right! <img src=/forums/images/smiles/kiss.gif> What you may not know though, is that baseball officials entertaining the idea of moving the expos to that park in San Juan have insisted that the fences must be moved back, to avoid what we do not like, cheap offense. Just thought you should know ;-D
Good, if they do move to San Juan the fences should be moved back. Agreed, there is nothing that can be done about Coors Field. It really hurts the Rockies because they can never win without having a super offense. For the Rockies to win 90 games they would have to scores over 1000 runs a season and that is very hard to do.
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