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President Bush is a genius??

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Postby Fireball Express » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:46 pm

Coppermine wrote:
Fireball Express wrote:Gore's a liberal and he's the one who put out this movie.


I guess that's all it comes down to... sigh. :-/


He wouldn't put out this movie if he didn't intend to make a political statement by it and turn global warming into a political issue.
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Postby Coppermine » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:46 pm

acsguitar wrote:
Jbyrdo wrote:
Fireball Express wrote:
Mars, Jupiter and Neptunes largest moon, Triton, are also experiencing higher temperatures and polar ice cap melting. Are Humans ruining the whole Milky Way?


Besides Mars, are Jupiter and Neptune's largest moon similiar to Earth?


Also notice that those places aren't inhabited by any whats it called...ummmm LIFE!!


Let's not get bent out of shape; I think fireball is trying to turn this movie into liberal propoganda and we're not going to convince him otherwise. Personally I'm interested in seeing it considering most scientists generally agree that the principles it presents are sound science. Of course most scientists agree that evolution is a fact and that creationism is ballyhoo, but why listen to them?

In any case, no sense in starting another political battle; I think what this thread has turned into is an interesting discussion on this movie. It's gotten good reviews from film critics and scientists, as well as criticism from conservative pundits; to me that spells out entertainment.

I also have trouble, in my own good sense and reason, believing that we, as humanity, have little to no effect on the Earth's climate. I think it's become more noticeable now, if for any reason, that countries like China and India are basically going through their version of our Industrial Revolution, with few checks on their environmental output. I can also agree that some of it is probably propoganda or blown out of proportion for dramatic effect. I'm not just a dumn liberal, I can sit on the fence and make my own decisions based on the information provided.
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Postby Fireball Express » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:49 pm

acsguitar wrote:
Fireball Express wrote:
Jbyrdo wrote:
Fireball Express wrote:
Mars, Jupiter and Neptunes largest moon, Triton, are also experiencing higher temperatures and polar ice cap melting. Are Humans ruining the whole Milky Way?


Besides Mars, are Jupiter and Neptune's largest moon similiar to Earth?


Point is that we are in a time where solar activity is very high. The sun is the greatest source of heat in this solar syatem


Thats not a very good point, no offense. Yes the sun is the greatest source of heat. However, that heat is amplified by the amount of fumes in the air. Oh yea those amounts aren't decreasing they are increasing


Actually, emissions have gone down in the last 30 years or so. I'll try to find that data for you tonight after I come back from work.
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Postby Coppermine » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:57 pm

Fireball Express wrote:Actually, emissions have gone down in the last 30 years or so. I'll try to find that data for you tonight after I come back from work.


World Emissions over the past 35 years:

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Last edited by Coppermine on Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby josebach » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:05 pm

I'm really not sure why this gets turned into a political issue either. It's really frustrating. Know what pisses me off more than anything? Is when people refuse to recycle out of spite.
:-t
I personally don't believe anybody knows one way or the other whether man is responsible for the Earth warming. One thing is for sure, though. The Earth IS warming. Wouldn't it make more sense to assume we're at least partially responsible and do something about it instead of sitting back and doing nothing? Think about it. People don't by auto insurance AFTER they get in an accident. They buy it before so that in case they get in an accident they're covered. Shouldn't this be the approach we take with our planet? Shouldn't we proactively try to make the planet healthier instead of waiting for the inevitable "accident"?
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Postby Coppermine » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:06 pm

josebach wrote:I'm really not sure why this gets turned into a political issue either. It's really frustrating. Know what pisses me off more than anything? Is when people refuse to recycle out of spite.
:-t


What if you refuse to recycle out of economic principle?
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Postby josebach » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:08 pm

Coppermine wrote:
josebach wrote:I'm really not sure why this gets turned into a political issue either. It's really frustrating. Know what pisses me off more than anything? Is when people refuse to recycle out of spite.
:-t


What if you refuse to recycle out of economic principle?


You'd have to elaborate. I'm referring to hardcore Republicans who don't recycle because that's what the Democrats want. (Keep in mind, I'm Independent)
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Postby acsguitar » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:16 pm

I'll get those dems by driving a diesel truck 1 mile to work everyday.

And maybee "emissions" have gone down but mass air polution has gone up
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Postby Coppermine » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:26 pm

I refuse to recycle for various economic and environmental issues. Economical because it is actually a waste of money (in the form of government imposed subsidies) and environmental because the impact of the recycling program itself actually does more harm than good.

I don't want to get into it, but I'll leave some links of what I can find. More than anything though I refuse to recycle paper. I put my aluminum cans in the aluminum can bin at work, but that's all. I don't recycle at home and I will not put paper anywhere but in the trash.

To make it short and simple, think of paper recycling as a manufacturing process. First, a truck, often a separate truck from the garbage truch, picks up your recyclebles (don't you find it ironic that recycle has DOUBLED the amount of trash collection trucks?) It's brought to a facilities where the paper is treated with various chemicles, de-inking solutions, bleaches and other harmful substances that are both toxic to humans, and to the environment in the form of fumes and emissions.

Now lets look at paper; all of the paper used in the United States is produced from trees which are grown on tree farms specifically for the use of manufacturing paper. New forests are not being cut down (or old-growth forests as they're called) and we are not taking our paper from trees in the rain forest (yes, your third grade teacher was wrong, but that's another problem altogether). In fact, there are over three times MORE trees in the United States today than there was in 1920, and it's because for every acre of tree farm trees cut down for making paper, SEVEN acres are planted (on average). Over the years, the paper has becoming a completely renewable resource.

Now, lets say you take that stack of newspapers and printouts, and toss them into the recycling bin. They go through the recycling process (over 60% of the paper is wasted anyway) and what happens to the tree farms? Well, demand goes down for new paper. So what do they do? They have to raise the price of paper. The continuing trend of recycling paper however will ultimately lead to lost profits for the paper industry resulting in those tree farms being sold to developers who will build residential homes and commercial shopping centers, thus losing those trees forever.

So, in short, if you want to save trees... don't recycle. And that's a fact.

http://www.ehponline.org/docs/1995/103-11/focus2.html
But is it a way of life that makes economic and environmental sense? Recently a number of economists and policy analysts have questioned whether the benefits of recycling outweigh the ease of disposing of waste materials in landfills. Critics say that what seems at first to make a great deal of sense doesn't always stand up to a close examination. For instance, some critics argue that collection costs make recycling a bad bargain for many localities because the costs often exceed the prices that the recyclables bring on the open market. They also charge that operating additional trucks to pick up recyclables increases toxic diesel emissions, offsetting any environmental gains.

http://www.lockjawslair.com/archives/20 ... cling.html
Paper comes from trees. Trees are good. That's hard to dispute. I like trees. Most paper, though, doesn't come from the majestic oaks and redwoods. You won't see clearcutting of virgin timber to make greeting cards. Paper is generally made from pulpwood. Pulp comes from softer wood trees like the pine. These trees grow relatively quickly. Longleaf pines grow quickly and easily enough that they are actually farmed. Land is set aside for the growing of pine trees. These trees grow, are cut down for goods, and then more are grown in their place. Trees, like so many of our resources, are renewable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... ortal.html
Throw away the green and blue bags and forget those trips to the bottle bank: recycling household waste is a load of, well, rubbish, according to leading environmentalists and waste campaigners.

In a reversal of decades-old wisdom, they argue that burning cardboard, plastics and food leftovers is better for the environment and the economy than recycling.

They dismiss the time-consuming practice - urged on householders by the Government and "green" councils - of separating rubbish for the refuse collectors as a waste of time and money.


http://www.williams.edu/HistSci/curricu ... rbage.html
John Tierney wrote:Rinsing out tuna cans and tying up newspapers may make you feel virtuous, but recycling could be America's most wasteful activity.


http://www.deanesmay.com/posts/1122480118.shtml

Just the tip of the iceberg really, it's all out there.
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Postby acsguitar » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:58 pm

Sweet I never wanted to recycle now I don't have to and I have a right wing reason not too!

Awesome :)

j/k

Those are some interesting facts that do make sense
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