Shhhh....Rafael Soriano - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2015 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Shhhh....Rafael Soriano

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby willy-t » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:27 am

Anybody who thinks Soriano is getting handed the job next year even if Putz keeps this up is kedding themselves. The guy is 29 and has saved 13 of 13. Very dominant.
willy-t
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 681
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby reynolds80 » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:36 am

Well if he gave up 74 hits along with that line, then yes...there would be some question.


Well if he finished with 74 hits and 74 innings, then he wouldn't be continuing the pace he's on now, would he?

Right now he's at 34 IP, 22 H.... so to extrapolate the hits allowed also, his total line is on pace for 74 IP, 49 H, 14 BB, 101 K. So I maintain what I said earlier.
reynolds80
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 290
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby mweir145 » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:06 am

reynolds80 wrote:
Well if he gave up 74 hits along with that line, then yes...there would be some question.


Well if he finished with 74 hits and 74 innings, then he wouldn't be continuing the pace he's on now, would he?

Right now he's at 34 IP, 22 H.... so to extrapolate the hits allowed also, his total line is on pace for 74 IP, 49 H, 14 BB, 101 K. So I maintain what I said earlier.

Well since we're going to assume Putz continues on his pace, why don't we assume B.J. and Papelbon continue doing the same? If we did that, Papelbon would have the greatest season of all time for a reliever, followed closely by B.J., and then third (yes, third) J.J. Putz.

Anyway, this makes no sense, none of them are going to finish like they have started. Who cares if they are on pace to do so. It's not going to last.
25
mweir145
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Eagle Eye
Posts: 16784
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 3 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Toronto

Postby The Loveable Losers » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:04 am

willy-t wrote:Anybody who thinks Soriano is getting handed the job next year even if Putz keeps this up is kedding themselves. The guy is 29 and has saved 13 of 13. Very dominant.


I have to agree with this. I'm a Soriano fan too but there's no reason they're going to give the job to Soriano next year just because coming into this year he was 'the closer of the future'. Putz would have to lose the job now...both during the year this year and in Spring Training next year.
The Loveable Losers
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterWeb Supporter
Posts: 7290
Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Cubs Win!!! Cubs Win!!!

Postby Chrisy Moltisanti » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:52 pm

reynolds80 wrote:....Putz is on pace for an extrapolated 74 IP, 14 BB, and 101 K. I doubt there would be any argument, if he were to finish with those numbers, as to whether or not it is one of the greatest seasons by a reliever in baseball history.


Sure there would be. He'd have to have many saves, a very low ERA, WHIP and HR rate to go along with it. Otherwise there would be a strong argument against.
Chrisy Moltisanti
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1536
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: 6 feet under

Postby Chrisy Moltisanti » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:37 pm

Code: Select all
YR Player       IP  BB   K  HR  ERA+  SV   BS

2006 Putz (ex)  74  14  101  2    ?   27   3 (5 Holds)

2004 FraRod     84  33  123  2  252   12   7 (27 Holds)

1996 Rivera  107.7  34  130  1  242   5    3 (27 Holds)

2003 Rivera   70.7  10  63   3  265   40   6

2005 Rivera   78.3  18  80   2  323   43   4

1998 Hoffman   73   21  86   2  258   53   1

2004 Nathan   72.3  23  89   3  292   44   3

2003 Gagne    82.3  20  137  2  335   55  GOOSE EGG

2003 Smotlz   64.3  8   73   2  371   45   4

1998 Nenn     88.9  25  110  4  267   40  ?

2001 Rhodes    68   12  80   5  245   3    4   (32 Holds)

1989/1990 Eck, no reason to post them, they blow Putz ex. # away


I didn't go so far to include many holds guys. I assume there aren't that many and/or they were used in special situations so we really can gauge them properly.

"One of the greatest RP seasons ever" is a general term so I have to give you that. However, without a great ERA+, amount of saves, very low ERA and WHIP he won't qualify for that term.

Can someone list Putz's current ERA plus?
Chrisy Moltisanti
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1536
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: 6 feet under

Postby The Loveable Losers » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:47 pm

Chrisy Moltisanti wrote:Can someone list Putz's current ERA plus?


191 but he's been a bit unlucky to post the era that he has...his component numbers project to an era right around 1.00 even though he's posted a 2.31. I'd have to look at the game log to see if it was just a blow-up or something like that.
The Loveable Losers
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterWeb Supporter
Posts: 7290
Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Cubs Win!!! Cubs Win!!!

Postby reynolds80 » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:02 pm

mweir145 wrote:
reynolds80 wrote:
Well if he gave up 74 hits along with that line, then yes...there would be some question.


Well if he finished with 74 hits and 74 innings, then he wouldn't be continuing the pace he's on now, would he?

Right now he's at 34 IP, 22 H.... so to extrapolate the hits allowed also, his total line is on pace for 74 IP, 49 H, 14 BB, 101 K. So I maintain what I said earlier.

Well since we're going to assume Putz continues on his pace, why don't we assume B.J. and Papelbon continue doing the same? If we did that, Papelbon would have the greatest season of all time for a reliever, followed closely by B.J., and then third (yes, third) J.J. Putz.

Anyway, this makes no sense, none of them are going to finish like they have started. Who cares if they are on pace to do so. It's not going to last.


Like I said, BJ and Paps are both on pace for historically great seasons also. Why would this precludes Putz from being on pace for having one as well? Where is it written that as of late June, three relievers can't all be on pace for historically great seasons?
reynolds80
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 290
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby reynolds80 » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:05 pm

Chrisy Moltisanti wrote:
Code: Select all
YR Player       IP  BB   K  HR  ERA+  SV   BS

2006 Putz (ex)  74  14  101  2    ?   27   3 (5 Holds)

2004 FraRod     84  33  123  2  252   12   7 (27 Holds)

1996 Rivera  107.7  34  130  1  242   5    3 (27 Holds)

2003 Rivera   70.7  10  63   3  265   40   6

2005 Rivera   78.3  18  80   2  323   43   4

1998 Hoffman   73   21  86   2  258   53   1

2004 Nathan   72.3  23  89   3  292   44   3

2003 Gagne    82.3  20  137  2  335   55  GOOSE EGG

2003 Smotlz   64.3  8   73   2  371   45   4

1998 Nenn     88.9  25  110  4  267   40  ?

2001 Rhodes    68   12  80   5  245   3    4   (32 Holds)

1989/1990 Eck, no reason to post them, they blow Putz ex. # away


I didn't go so far to include many holds guys. I assume there aren't that many and/or they were used in special situations so we really can gauge them properly.

"One of the greatest RP seasons ever" is a general term so I have to give you that. However, without a great ERA+, amount of saves, very low ERA and WHIP he won't qualify for that term.

Can someone list Putz's current ERA plus?


Putz' extrapolated stats compares favorably to the guys on that list. Saves, holds, hits, and earned runs are not as indicative of effectiveness as K rate, BB rate, and HR rate.
reynolds80
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 290
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Chrisy Moltisanti » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:58 pm

Putz' extrapolated stats compares favorably to the guys on that list. Saves, holds, hits, and earned runs are not as indicative of effectiveness as K rate, BB rate, and HR rate.


Know that I respect K, BB and HR as I noted the three big qualifiers earlier. Like I said, under your three qualifiers his ext. season would be considered one of the greatest, however there is more to being great than in my view. Such as being in the pressure situation of getting saves (more often than Putz) and success rate therein, quality of hitters faced, WXRL, ERA+ and possibly more. Currently Putz's WXRL, QBF (QOPS), total saves and ERA+ keep me from giving his ext. stats credit for such a term which is so often thrown around.
Chrisy Moltisanti
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1536
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Home Cafe: Basketball
Location: 6 feet under

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2015 MLB season starts in 4:42 hours
(and 96 days)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact