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Anaheim moves?

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Anaheim moves?

Postby Bozo » Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:49 pm

I know all the Anaheim talk lately is the possible trade of Santana. Is there any chance Anaheim might look at trading Figgins? We discussed it on a different forum a few weeks ago as his avg is down and he seems to have been involved in a couple of run-ins with teammates and coaches. Given the fact that they are 5 games out do you think they might move him (maybe with Santana) to get a big bopper. I'm concerned because I have a chance to trade for him in an AL only and I'd hate to make the move and then have him traded to the NL. Anyone out there from Anaheim that might have some hometown inside information. Does Scioscia still like him?
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Postby johnsamo » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:19 pm

He's definitely slipped across the board this year, at the plate but especially at 3b.... Te only way I want him is if he can play OF, he's killing us in the infield. I haven't heard anything about "problems" with him though.
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Postby tol1l1yboy » Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:11 pm

He was overrated after last year anyways. The guy is a very good utility player but shouldnt be starting at third for a good team. He went nuts last year but over his career he hasnt been anything that special...certainly not $30 special (as he is in my league this year) or a top 50 pick like he was in most drafts.

Figgins hits for good average and steals some bases but doesnt play good defense (especially at third) and as he gets older that speed will continue to decline and then he will lose most of his value to the Angels and to fantasy owners.

Baseball Prospectus absolutely nailed him falling off this year too. He should rebound a little and maybe he can get his average up but if he steals more then 35/40 bases I will be surprised. If the Angels could count on Erstad and Anderson staying healthy and McStrikeout learning to hit lefties I have no doubt they would move him in a heart beat.
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Postby zevon » Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:14 pm

johnsamo wrote:He's definitely slipped across the board this year, at the plate but especially at 3b.... Te only way I want him is if he can play OF, he's killing us in the infield. I haven't heard anything about "problems" with him though.


I did read something about a week ago in the San Diego paper that he was in Sciosia's doghouse, hustle issues if I remember correctly.
He was then benched for a day or two and I've heard nothing since.
Might make sense, Chone/Santana for Crawford and recall Weaver.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for it.
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Postby johnsamo » Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:49 pm

If Bartolo does well enuf to convince them that he'll be his old self in the 2nd half, then I think a trade will be imminent. If not Crawford, than Soriano.
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Postby The Loveable Losers » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:06 am

zevon wrote:
johnsamo wrote:He's definitely slipped across the board this year, at the plate but especially at 3b.... Te only way I want him is if he can play OF, he's killing us in the infield. I haven't heard anything about "problems" with him though.


I did read something about a week ago in the San Diego paper that he was in Sciosia's doghouse, hustle issues if I remember correctly.
He was then benched for a day or two and I've heard nothing since.
Might make sense, Chone/Santana for Crawford and recall Weaver.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for it.


That incident wasn't a big deal. It was on an all-around defensive breakdown (the type that johnsamo can tell you all about this team making). Situation was a late innings 1 run game with men on the corners. Guy breaks from first to steal second...instead of just holding the ball the catcher guns it about 2 feet over the middle infielder's head and into center field (where Figgins was playing that night). The ball rolled right by him because he was loafing to back it up and the runner (I believe it was Carl Crawford) took third on the play...might have even scored. I just remember being in shock that the catcher even threw the ball there.

Anyways, the next day Sciossia came out and said he was benching Figgy for the day because of the play. He also said though that it was very unlike Figgins to make a play like that. So while he definitely got in the doghouse with Sciossia it also sounds like they haven't had recurrent issues (at least up to the point of that game).
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Postby johnsamo » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:00 am

It wouldn't break my heart to see Figgy go. He was valuable last year because he could play anywhere, but this year, he's playing badly in the infield, so that sort of takes away his utility value. His decline across the board this year is not a good sign long term. He should be at the age where he's getting better at the plate but he's dropped off. Especially hitting in front of Cabrera and Vlad, he's not getting pitched around.

If the Angels have a fault in terms of strategy though, it's that they tend to be overly loyal to longtime veterans who they like on a personal level, and thus, they don't ever sell high on veterans that are at the cusps of their declining skills stage. Instead, they hold on to them for years, even though they spend half their time on the DL, and when they play, they don't produce like they used to, but the Angels still act like it's jis a matter of time before they return to form. The ultimate exanples are guys like Erstadt and Salmon who are way past their prime and are only around because they're liked. Garrett Anderson, can still swing when he's healthy, but he's stuck in the field too much because they're giving too many DH abs to Salmon.

They're also taking playing time and salary room away from better younger players IMO.

Adam Kennedy is a perfect example. At the very least, Kendrick should be on the team now platooning at 2b. My bet is, Kendrick would probably have already won the full time job too, but instead, memories of past Kennedy heroics blind Angels management to his current performance level.

And as for the defensive mistakes this year. The sheer # of them, even from vets like Cabrera, point to a lack of focus on defense by the coaching staff... Cabrera has 9 errors so far this year. He had 7 total last year. If one fielder gets the yips, that's one thing, but when everyody has the yips, it's not the yips, it's a problem at the coaching level.

I just don't get it, I've always thought of Scioscia as a good coach and blamed the keeping of aged vets on the General Manager. but horrific fielding problems aren't a front office problem.
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Postby red_foot » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:39 am

It wouldn't break my heart to see Figgy go. He was valuable last year because he could play anywhere, but this year, he's playing badly in the infield, so that sort of takes away his utility value. His decline across the board this year is not a good sign long term. He should be at the age where he's getting better at the plate but he's dropped off. Especially hitting in front of Cabrera and Vlad, he's not getting pitched around.

If the Angels have a fault in terms of strategy though, it's that they tend to be overly loyal to longtime veterans who they like on a personal level, and thus, they don't ever sell high on veterans that are at the cusps of their declining skills stage. Instead, they hold on to them for years, even though they spend half their time on the DL, and when they play, they don't produce like they used to, but the Angels still act like it's jis a matter of time before they return to form. The ultimate exanples are guys like Erstadt and Salmon who are way past their prime and are only around because they're liked. Garrett Anderson, can still swing when he's healthy, but he's stuck in the field too much because they're giving too many DH abs to Salmon.

They're also taking playing time and salary room away from better younger players IMO.

Adam Kennedy is a perfect example. At the very least, Kendrick should be on the team now platooning at 2b. My bet is, Kendrick would probably have already won the full time job too, but instead, memories of past Kennedy heroics blind Angels management to his current performance level.

And as for the defensive mistakes this year. The sheer # of them, even from vets like Cabrera, point to a lack of focus on defense by the coaching staff... Cabrera has 9 errors so far this year. He had 7 total last year. If one fielder gets the yips, that's one thing, but when everyody has the yips, it's not the yips, it's a problem at the coaching level.

I just don't get it, I've always thought of Scioscia as a good coach and blamed the keeping of aged vets on the General Manager. but horrific fielding problems aren't a front office problem.




John you make some good points here except that Figgy is hitting the ball pretty well lately. Aren't players allowed to slump once in a while? Figgy just went through a bad period where he hit like 200. He shortened his swing and now he looks good. Mostly I agree with what you say about Sciosia's loyalty and all, but you should look at how much better the angels do when Figgy performs well. He sets up the whole offense. Few other leadoff hitters have that much of an impact on the success of their team. Just watch, his second half will be solid.
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Postby johnsamo » Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:17 am

I probably overstated my Figgy comments because I'm so flustered about the ANgel's defense, and they're sitting Jered. It's just getting to me how badly they are underperforming. It doesn't help my mood that they sent down the one pitcher on my fantasy team that was dealing. And this anger is compounded because in April and May, SHield and K-Rod (wh are on my FBB team) couldn't hardly get any saves or holds because the Angels sucked so bad... and just when Jered was starting to brighten my mood, getting wins and allowing me some holds and saves, boom, he's gone.

You're right about Figgy.... this could be just a cold streak and he has hit this week.... Believe me, if the Angels get another decent hitter, start giving the pitchers some decent leads occassionally and stop ruining games with bonehead defensive plays all the time, I'll be in a much better mood.
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Postby red_foot » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:18 pm

The major problem is the defense. That has lost them a ton of games this year. In fact, I would go as far as to say that so far, their defense has been the difference between them being in first vs. last place. I'm not a huge Sciosa fan, but I don't think he's going to take that lying down for too much longer. He's a bit slow to adjust (and believe me, that frustrates me), but when he acts, it's usually pretty definitive.

I wouldn't worry about the Jered Weaver situation. I think they made that move while fully expecting to recall him soon. They need to showcase BOTH Santana and Weaver because they feel they need to trade one of them for a bat (which is true). This is a tactical move on their part and one that I am willing to accept for now.

The biggest thing to me is the fact that the Angels have played soooo badly with little offense, decent pitching, and obnoxiously bad defense and yet they are still only like 6 games out with over half the season to go. It just tells me that Oakland and Texas don't really want it bad enough or aren't really solid enough to take the division. If the Angels improve offense and fielding, I say they take the division decisively.

So my point is that I think the season outlook is ok. I think the front office is actually competent (and bellieve me that means a lot having grown up in San Diego), and that they will make the key move that sets the season up. We should see it happen in the next two weeks. I can't wait.
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