Secret Avatar wrote:Cy Young winners usually come from teams that make the playoffs. If the Twins make the playoffs, Liriano will be the front-runner for sure (assuming of course he keeps pitching at or near his current level). If they don't he might lose out to a guy like Schilling, who is not much behind Liriano in the stats department, has an equal number of wins, and is on a team likely headed to the playoffs.
Of the last ten AL Cy Youngs, only half were awarded to starters on playoff teams.
1996-Pat Hentgen - No Playoffs 1997-Roger Clemens - No Playoffs 1998-Roger Clemens - No Playoffs 1999-Pedro Martinez - Playoffs 2000-Pedro Martinez - No Playoffs 2001-Roger Clemens - Playoffs 2002-Barry Zito - Playoffs 2003-Roy Halladay - No Playoffs 2004-Pedro Martinez - Playoffs 2005-Bartolo Colon - Playoffs
I'm pretty sure it was Johan Santana in 2004, not Pedro Martinez.
You would be correct. I was going by memory on most of them and got 2004 wrong.
Minny was a playoff team that year so it was still 5 from playoff teams and 5 from non-playoff teams.
Secret Avatar wrote:Cy Young winners usually come from teams that make the playoffs.
That is a pretty accurate statement. It has been previously mentioned that 5 of the last 10 cy young winners came from playoff teams. Considering there are 8 playoff teams out of 30, that is a good ratio. While I'm not saying that you have to be on a playoff team to win the Cy Young, saying the winners usually come from playoff teams is quite right.
405z06 wrote:If there is a correlation, it's because winning teams have pitchers with better W/L numbers, as opposed to writers voting for a pitcher based on their team's record.
I'll stick by this. I don't think Liriano's chances of winning the Cy changes with where the Twins finish in the standings (which is what he was saying).
Well, if Liriano finishes with an ERA under 2.00 I think it should be a one-guy race. I mean, come on, how often does a starting pitcher do that? Three times since the DH according to this thread - it's a historical accomplishment. If he continues to keep it under 2.00 and doesn't win the Cy Young, the award is completely useless in my opinion.
Is he not getting the respect because of the small market? If he was on Boston or the Yankees, he would be a national folk hero.
Kurtangletn wrote:Like others have said if were talking about if the pace continues, paplebon should definatly win it but for a RP, 2 bad apperances and hes up to 1.5 era, so it will be extremely tough for him to keep the pace
At the current pace, Liriano should win it. A closer should only win the Cy Young when there is not a truly dominant starter. Closers are middle relievers that happen to pitch the last inning. A dominant starter is far more important to the team and more difficult to be than a dominant closer. Flame on!
/Preemptive strike - there are also extraordinarily dominant guys who pitch the 8th inning. Why do they get no Cy love?
I see two flaws in your logic:
1. Not all middle relievers can be closers. You see all the time dominant 8th inning guys who can't take the heat of slamming the door shut. This is why they get no love.
2. While a starter is more valuable than a closer, I don't think the difference is as great as you do. Every single inning that a closer throws is important and pressure packed. The game is always on the line. Starters have much more leeway to make mistakes and recover from them.
That said, I think Liriano at this point should win the Cy hands down.
"The government cannot give to anyone anything that it does not first take from someone else"
Kurtangletn wrote:Like others have said if were talking about if the pace continues, paplebon should definatly win it but for a RP, 2 bad apperances and hes up to 1.5 era, so it will be extremely tough for him to keep the pace
At the current pace, Liriano should win it. A closer should only win the Cy Young when there is not a truly dominant starter. Closers are middle relievers that happen to pitch the last inning. A dominant starter is far more important to the team and more difficult to be than a dominant closer. Flame on!
/Preemptive strike - there are also extraordinarily dominant guys who pitch the 8th inning. Why do they get no Cy love?
I see two flaws in your logic:
1. Not all middle relievers can be closers. You see all the time dominant 8th inning guys who can't take the heat of slamming the door shut. This is why they get no love.
2. While a starter is more valuable than a closer, I don't think the difference is as great as you do. Every single inning that a closer throws is important and pressure packed. The game is always on the line. Starters have much more leeway to make mistakes and recover from them.
That said, I think Liriano at this point should win the Cy hands down.
It's not necessarily true at all that every single inning a closer throws is when the game is on the line. I don't consider a 3 run lead, or even a 2 run lead classifying as being on the line, and many closers get these types of saves. Also, who says Juan Rincon or Scot Schields can't handle the heat of slamming the door shut? They just don't get any opportunities, and if they did, they could possibly do quite well. I consider the 8th inning just as stressful as the ninth inning, games can be lost in both.
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by mikhayl » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:58 pm 
