Liriano for Cy Young - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Liriano for Cy Young

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby mikhayl » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:58 pm

WhiteHot wrote:
mikhayl wrote:
Secret Avatar wrote:Cy Young winners usually come from teams that make the playoffs. If the Twins make the playoffs, Liriano will be the front-runner for sure (assuming of course he keeps pitching at or near his current level). If they don't he might lose out to a guy like Schilling, who is not much behind Liriano in the stats department, has an equal number of wins, and is on a team likely headed to the playoffs.


Of the last ten AL Cy Youngs, only half were awarded to starters on playoff teams.

1996-Pat Hentgen - No Playoffs
1997-Roger Clemens - No Playoffs
1998-Roger Clemens - No Playoffs
1999-Pedro Martinez - Playoffs
2000-Pedro Martinez - No Playoffs
2001-Roger Clemens - Playoffs
2002-Barry Zito - Playoffs
2003-Roy Halladay - No Playoffs
2004-Pedro Martinez - Playoffs
2005-Bartolo Colon - Playoffs


I'm pretty sure it was Johan Santana in 2004, not Pedro Martinez.


You would be correct. I was going by memory on most of them and got 2004 wrong.

Minny was a playoff team that year so it was still 5 from playoff teams and 5 from non-playoff teams.
Let's go O's. Let's go Mets.
mikhayl
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 839
Joined: 9 May 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Postby mikekim2121 » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:06 am

Secret Avatar wrote:Cy Young winners usually come from teams that make the playoffs.


That is a pretty accurate statement. It has been previously mentioned that 5 of the last 10 cy young winners came from playoff teams. Considering there are 8 playoff teams out of 30, that is a good ratio. While I'm not saying that you have to be on a playoff team to win the Cy Young, saying the winners usually come from playoff teams is quite right.
mikekim2121
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 914
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 4 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: NJ

Postby 405z06 » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:12 am

405z06 wrote:If there is a correlation, it's because winning teams have pitchers with better W/L numbers, as opposed to writers voting for a pitcher based on their team's record.


I'll stick by this. I don't think Liriano's chances of winning the Cy changes with where the Twins finish in the standings (which is what he was saying).
405z06
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 126
Joined: 23 May 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St Louis, MO

Postby BillyHallDisciple » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:47 am

The point a lot of people are missing here is that the Twins have a pretty decent shot at the playoffs, and Liriano is tied for the ML lead in wins.
BillyHallDisciple
General Manager
General Manager


Posts: 2850
Joined: 1 Aug 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby HOOTIE » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:15 am

Santana, Liriano, Halladay, Verlander are all about the same in vorp. Add Schilling/Papelbon, it's a 6 guy race.
Smells Like Teen Spirit
HOOTIE
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe Ranker
Posts: 15115
(Past Year: 297)
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pearl Jam country, right next door to Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains.

Postby BillyHallDisciple » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:09 pm

Well, if Liriano finishes with an ERA under 2.00 I think it should be a one-guy race. I mean, come on, how often does a starting pitcher do that? Three times since the DH according to this thread - it's a historical accomplishment. If he continues to keep it under 2.00 and doesn't win the Cy Young, the award is completely useless in my opinion.

Is he not getting the respect because of the small market? If he was on Boston or the Yankees, he would be a national folk hero.
BillyHallDisciple
General Manager
General Manager


Posts: 2850
Joined: 1 Aug 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby WhiteHot » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:30 pm

HOOTIE wrote:Santana, Liriano, Halladay, Verlander are all about the same in vorp.


Liriano is way ahead in WURIUP.
WhiteHot
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1622
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Argentina

Postby Bloody Sox » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:02 pm

stevekahuda wrote:
Kurtangletn wrote:Like others have said if were talking about if the pace continues, paplebon should definatly win it but for a RP, 2 bad apperances and hes up to 1.5 era, so it will be extremely tough for him to keep the pace


At the current pace, Liriano should win it. A closer should only win the Cy Young when there is not a truly dominant starter. Closers are middle relievers that happen to pitch the last inning. A dominant starter is far more important to the team and more difficult to be than a dominant closer. Flame on!

/Preemptive strike - there are also extraordinarily dominant guys who pitch the 8th inning. Why do they get no Cy love?


I see two flaws in your logic:

1. Not all middle relievers can be closers. You see all the time dominant 8th inning guys who can't take the heat of slamming the door shut. This is why they get no love.

2. While a starter is more valuable than a closer, I don't think the difference is as great as you do. Every single inning that a closer throws is important and pressure packed. The game is always on the line. Starters have much more leeway to make mistakes and recover from them.

That said, I think Liriano at this point should win the Cy hands down.
"The government cannot give to anyone anything that it does not first take from someone else"
Bloody Sox
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 2148
(Past Year: 18)
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Fenway Park, RF Roof Deck

Postby Los_Dodgers » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:28 pm

Bloody Sox wrote:
stevekahuda wrote:
Kurtangletn wrote:Like others have said if were talking about if the pace continues, paplebon should definatly win it but for a RP, 2 bad apperances and hes up to 1.5 era, so it will be extremely tough for him to keep the pace


At the current pace, Liriano should win it. A closer should only win the Cy Young when there is not a truly dominant starter. Closers are middle relievers that happen to pitch the last inning. A dominant starter is far more important to the team and more difficult to be than a dominant closer. Flame on!

/Preemptive strike - there are also extraordinarily dominant guys who pitch the 8th inning. Why do they get no Cy love?


I see two flaws in your logic:

1. Not all middle relievers can be closers. You see all the time dominant 8th inning guys who can't take the heat of slamming the door shut. This is why they get no love.

2. While a starter is more valuable than a closer, I don't think the difference is as great as you do. Every single inning that a closer throws is important and pressure packed. The game is always on the line. Starters have much more leeway to make mistakes and recover from them.

That said, I think Liriano at this point should win the Cy hands down.


It's not necessarily true at all that every single inning a closer throws is when the game is on the line. I don't consider a 3 run lead, or even a 2 run lead classifying as being on the line, and many closers get these types of saves. Also, who says Juan Rincon or Scot Schields can't handle the heat of slamming the door shut? They just don't get any opportunities, and if they did, they could possibly do quite well. I consider the 8th inning just as stressful as the ninth inning, games can be lost in both. ;-D
Los_Dodgers
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1391
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby BillyHallDisciple » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:20 pm

Twins sweep the Chisox and tie them in the wildcard race!!! Looks like Liriano's chances of being on a playoff team are pretty decent.
BillyHallDisciple
General Manager
General Manager


Posts: 2850
Joined: 1 Aug 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Monday, Sep. 1
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Philadelphia at Atlanta
(1:10 pm)
NY Mets at Miami
(1:10 pm)
indoors
Boston at Tampa Bay
(1:10 pm)
indoors
Minnesota at Baltimore
(1:35 pm)
Pittsburgh at St. Louis
(2:15 pm)
Milwaukee at Chi Cubs
(2:20 pm)
Seattle at Oakland
(4:05 pm)
Detroit at Cleveland
(4:05 pm)
San Francisco at Colorado
(4:10 pm)
Arizona at San Diego
(4:10 pm)
Texas at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Washington at LA Dodgers
(8:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact