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Re: Andy Pettitte

Postby Pogotheostrich » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:48 am

NikkiSixx wrote:Well why dont you recalculate those numbers at the end of the season. I can if you want but I doubt there will be a big difference.

Plus he had an injury riddled first season in the NL, and he was amazing last year. He was amazing in the 2nd half. Players get hot. Good for him. He isn't going to return to that level for an extended period of time.

I would much rather pitch against another pitcher at the plate rather than a DH, and I would most certainly rather pitch against the NL's catchers rather than the AL's catchers. Plus, most of the offenses in the NL are just generally weaker than those in the AL. I don't disagree with any of this. I do disagree with the statement that good AL pitchers become dominant NL pitchers.

Andy Pettitte was fantastic last year, but do you really think he would have been as great in the AL? his '05 would probably look like a 3.00 ERA, and a 1.15 WHIP, thats a big difference from a 2.39 ERA, and a 1.03 WHIP. There is nothing to support those numbers.
League average NL 2005: 4.35 ERA 1.36 WHIP
League average AL 2005: 4.22 ERA 1.36 WHIP

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Re: Andy Pettitte

Postby NikkiSixx » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:35 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:Well why dont you recalculate those numbers at the end of the season. I can if you want but I doubt there will be a big difference.

Plus he had an injury riddled first season in the NL, and he was amazing last year. He was amazing in the 2nd half. Players get hot. Good for him. He isn't going to return to that level for an extended period of time.

I would much rather pitch against another pitcher at the plate rather than a DH, and I would most certainly rather pitch against the NL's catchers rather than the AL's catchers. Plus, most of the offenses in the NL are just generally weaker than those in the AL. I don't disagree with any of this. I do disagree with the statement that good AL pitchers become dominant NL pitchers.

Andy Pettitte was fantastic last year, but do you really think he would have been as great in the AL? his '05 would probably look like a 3.00 ERA, and a 1.15 WHIP, thats a big difference from a 2.39 ERA, and a 1.03 WHIP. There is nothing to support those numbers.
League average NL 2005: 4.35 ERA 1.36 WHIP
League average AL 2005: 4.22 ERA 1.36 WHIP



Not all good AL pitchers become dominant NL pitchers, but a few of them do. Im not saying Pettitte will be that great again this year by any means, I am just saying he should be very good in the 2nd half. And are you meaning to tell me Chris Carpenter would be this good in the AL? I really dont think so...maybe though. I do agree that he wont have a sub 2.00 ERA and a sub 1.00 WHIP for an extended period of time, but he should still be a very good option. I did not know that the league average in the AL and NL were so close last year, but that doesnt change my mind that I would still would rather have a pitcher in the NL, than a pitcher in the AL. Have you ever noticed that there are more top pitchers in the NL than in the AL? I have...
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Postby NikkiSixx » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:40 pm

Also, let me ask you this...


How many cases have their been where a successful NL pitcher goes to the AL and puts up much better numbers than they did in the NL? There are DEFINATELY lot more cases where AL pitchers go on to pitch very well in the NL, look at Bronson Arroyo, he isnt good in my opinion, but he looks great pitching in the NL. Do you think a guy like Bronson Arroyo could come from the NL and pitch like that in the AL? I feel like Im beating a dead horse here, but I do feel I got my point across.
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Re: Andy Pettitte

Postby Pogotheostrich » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:49 pm

NikkiSixx wrote:I did not know that the league average in the AL and NL were so close last year, but that doesnt change my mind that I would still would rather have a pitcher in the NL, than a pitcher in the AL. Have you ever noticed that there are more top pitchers in the NL than in the AL? I have...
Everyone would rather pitch in the NL because there is no DH. As for more top pitchers in the NL you can look at it 1 of 3 ways.
1. AL hitting is just better
2. NL pitching is just better
3. A little bit of #1 and a little bit of #2.

There seems to be a growing idea that the AL is a vastly superior league because the All-star victories and the last 2 WS and it just isn't true.
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Re: Andy Pettitte

Postby NikkiSixx » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:54 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:I did not know that the league average in the AL and NL were so close last year, but that doesnt change my mind that I would still would rather have a pitcher in the NL, than a pitcher in the AL. Have you ever noticed that there are more top pitchers in the NL than in the AL? I have...
Everyone would rather pitch in the NL because there is no DH. As for more top pitchers in the NL you can look at it 1 of 3 ways.
1. AL hitting is just better
2. NL pitching is just better
3. A little bit of #1 and a little bit of #2.

There seems to be a growing idea that the AL is a vastly superior league because the All-star victories and the last 2 WS and it just isn't true.


NL hitting worse than the AL...thats why some good pitchers in the AL dominate in the NL.


I have never looked at one league as more superior than the other. I dont think the all-star victories really mean anything.
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Postby CadensDad » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:00 pm

I think AL Hitting seems better and the NL Pitchign seems better because of the DH spot. In NL Pitchers hit and that is looked at as a easy out or something. Plus most AL lineups have usually only 1 or 2 "easy outs" most NL teams have 3 sometimes 4.

The DH is a big help imagine if the EMts had a DH? Ortiz in the lineup with Delgado, Wright, Beltran and Reyes? Or Hafner in the line up with Pujols, Rolen or Edmonds?

I think DH plays a huge roll in numbers over all. When you ahve 9 hitters on a team or you face 8 hitters. It's only 1 but in most cases it's a HUGE difference.
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Postby tomdoyle3 » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:08 pm

CadensDad wrote:I think AL Hitting seems better and the NL Pitchign seems better because of the DH spot. In NL Pitchers hit and that is looked at as a easy out or something. Plus most AL lineups have usually only 1 or 2 "easy outs" most NL teams have 3 sometimes 4.

The DH is a big help imagine if the EMts had a DH? Ortiz in the lineup with Delgado, Wright, Beltran and Reyes? Or Hafner in the line up with Pujols, Rolen or Edmonds?

I think DH plays a huge roll in numbers over all. When you ahve 9 hitters on a team or you face 8 hitters. It's only 1 but in most cases it's a HUGE difference.


You are absolutely right, but don't overlook the fact that most of the DH's just aren't that good.

Yes, they are still better than any NL pitcher, but c'mon, Tim Salmon? Dmitri Young? Rondell White? Other than the White Sox, Redsox, and Indians, the american League's DH's are pretty weak hitters.
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Postby johnsamo » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:06 am

NL teams have to have better benches because they need to pinch hit for pitchers and sometimes do double switches to keep the pitchers spot from being up the next inning.... Thus, NL owners spend a greater percentage of their # on bench players, that leaves less for the fulltime stars.

In the AL... you can just let the lineup ride no matter what pitching changes you make.
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Postby johnsamo » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:09 am

But as a pitcher, facing the NL is easier... if you get in a hitter's count with the #8 hiitter, there's no reason you have to throw a fastball down the middle when you can just walk him and face the pitcher.
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Postby The Big Train » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:11 pm

You know that Pettitte must have some serious problems when he gives up a slam to a lightweight like Podsednik. I've noticed quite a bit lately that he's had difficulty getting the opposing pitcher out as well (can't remember who, but he gave up 3 or 4 hits in one game to the other pitcher). Given that he started his throwing program later than usual this year, I was prepared to give him until the beginning of this month to really get going. But this is ridiculous. I'd hate to cut him loose, but he's practically worthless right now.
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