To all Nolan Ryan dissers... - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball History

To all Nolan Ryan dissers...

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby rainman23 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:38 pm

johnsamo wrote:Ryan's odd #s are a combination of overwork early in his career and terrible run support for most of his career. Once he was with the Rangers, even though he was 42 when he went there, his win versus loss #s suddenly closely matched what you would expect from his base stats. That was because the Rangers (a) gave him decent run support, (b) took him out when he was having a bad game or got tired.

It was the Angel years that cemented his "walks too many" reputation. One massive reason why he had so many walks was because the Angels rarely took him out. Anybody knows a pitcher starts walking guys when he gets tired. When he was throwing 300+ innings a season, he was walking 200 or so guys. That's also why he had so many losses. starters who get taken when they tire or are having a bad day will often get lucky and got a no decisions, Ryan never had that luxury.

But as his carrer went on and he stopped throwing so many innings a season, his walk ratios plummetted to respectable levels. Once he was in the more reasonable 200 innings a year average, he was walking around 80 guys a year. A massive difference that comes from (a) not being over worked, and (b) getting better at locating.


I swear to God, johnsamo, you're becoming my favorite poster. So much of your stuff reads like great fiction. What I remember is that Ryan had terrible control from the beginning of his career. Your analysis is going to have to recognize this before the rest of your argument has any credibility at all.

But since memories are flawed, let's go to the tape, shall we? Here are his last few years with the Mets, and his first few with the Angels. Do you see anything here that suggests all those extra innings were responsible for his bad control?

IP's BB BB/IP
134 -- 75 -- 0.559701493
89.33 -- 53 -- 0.59330572
131.67 -- 97 -- 0.73669021
152 -- 116 -- 0.763157895
284 -- 157 -- 0.552816901
326 -- 162 -- 0.496932515
332.67 -- 202 -- 0.607208345
rainman23
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 937
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby hwiggen » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:24 am

Nolan Ryan was clearly one of the most talented pitchers of all time.
But he was nowhere near one of the BEST pitchers of all time. Not even close.
hwiggen
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 361
Joined: 1 May 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby thedude » Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:20 pm

I remember in a highschool history class we were talking about sports in American culture. Our teacher asked us to list our top ten atheles of all-time. three of my teammates from the baseball team put Nolan Ryan in their top ten. top ten of ALL-TIME ATHELES! :-P .


I tried to explain that he wasn't even one of the ten best pitchers in the history of the game, but i think i lost them after i discarded the stat about no-hitters.


The average american sports fan, just doesn't really know that much about sports. So they get impressed with guys like Nolan Ryan.
"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.
thedude
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 8413
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Good Life

Postby PlayingWithFire » Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:11 pm

thedude wrote:I remember in a highschool history class we were talking about sports in American culture. Our teacher asked us to list our top ten atheles of all-time. three of my teammates from the baseball team put Nolan Ryan in their top ten. top ten of ALL-TIME ATHELES! :-P .


I tried to explain that he wasn't even one of the ten best pitchers in the history of the game, but i think i lost them after i discarded the stat about no-hitters.


The average american sports fan, just doesn't really know that much about sports. So they get impressed with guys like Nolan Ryan.


BASEBALL GEEKS :-b O:-)
Are you interested in joining a 28 teams dynasty league? If so, PM me.
PlayingWithFire
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe WriterLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13262
Joined: 7 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Manhattan, KS

Postby HOOTIE » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:28 am

Ryan doesn't crack the top 25 ever.

As far as bad teams, Seaver actually played on teams with a lower win %, yet had a .603 win % to Ryans .522.

Taking a pitchers actual runs, versus his teams average runs, Ryan came up -9. So he lost 9 games he shouldn't in his career.

So his 324-292 record goes to 333-283.
Not alot of difference. his 87 season was a aberration of bad luck, getting a -6 that year, by far his really only bad luck year.
Smells Like Teen Spirit
HOOTIE
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe Ranker
Posts: 15115
(Past Year: 297)
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pearl Jam country, right next door to Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains.

Postby Stejay » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:41 am

Maybe number 25 or 26 of alltime.
Image
Stejay
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 269
Joined: 1 Jan 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Cleveland,Ohio

Postby thedude » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:22 pm

PlayingWithFire wrote:
thedude wrote:I remember in a highschool history class we were talking about sports in American culture. Our teacher asked us to list our top ten atheles of all-time. three of my teammates from the baseball team put Nolan Ryan in their top ten. top ten of ALL-TIME ATHELES! :-P .


I tried to explain that he wasn't even one of the ten best pitchers in the history of the game, but i think i lost them after i discarded the stat about no-hitters.


The average american sports fan, just doesn't really know that much about sports. So they get impressed with guys like Nolan Ryan.


BASEBALL GEEKS :-b O:-)


IS that supposed to be an insult? :-b
"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.
thedude
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 8413
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Good Life

Postby PlayingWithFire » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:53 am

thedude wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
thedude wrote:I remember in a highschool history class we were talking about sports in American culture. Our teacher asked us to list our top ten atheles of all-time. three of my teammates from the baseball team put Nolan Ryan in their top ten. top ten of ALL-TIME ATHELES! :-P .


I tried to explain that he wasn't even one of the ten best pitchers in the history of the game, but i think i lost them after i discarded the stat about no-hitters.


The average american sports fan, just doesn't really know that much about sports. So they get impressed with guys like Nolan Ryan.


BASEBALL GEEKS :-b O:-)


IS that supposed to be an insult? :-b


Yes }:-)
Are you interested in joining a 28 teams dynasty league? If so, PM me.
PlayingWithFire
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe WriterLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13262
Joined: 7 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Manhattan, KS

Re: To all Nolan Ryan dissers...

Postby Neato Torpedo » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:34 pm

Pete Rose is the greatest hitter of all time.
Image

Rocinante2: you know
Rocinante2: its easy to dismiss the orioles as a bad team
ofanrex: go on
Rocinante2: i'm done
Rocinante2: lmao

Play Brushback Baseball! (we need more people)
Neato Torpedo
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerWeb Supporter
Posts: 8618
Joined: 4 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: we don't burn gasoline, we burn our dreams

Re: To all Nolan Ryan dissers...

Postby Carnac » Tue May 12, 2009 6:09 pm

In defense of the average american sports fan, Nolan Ryan WAS very impressive. He wasn't one of the top 25 of all time, but he was impressive.
Carnac
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1388
(Past Year: 64)
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Strolling down Penny Lane

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball History

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Thursday, Jul. 31
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Chi White Sox at Detroit
(1:08 pm)
Colorado at Chi Cubs
(2:20 pm)
St. Louis at San Diego
(3:40 pm)
Philadelphia at Washington
(7:05 pm)
Seattle at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
LA Angels at Baltimore
(7:05 pm)
Cincinnati at Miami
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Toronto at Houston
(8:10 pm)
Minnesota at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Pittsburgh at Arizona
(9:40 pm)
Atlanta at LA Dodgers
(10:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact