To all Nolan Ryan dissers...

[rainman23]

Ryan's odd #s are a combination of overwork early in his career and terrible run support for most of his career. Once he was with the Rangers, even though he was 42 when he went there, his win versus loss #s suddenly closely matched what you would expect from his base stats. That was because the Rangers (a) gave him decent run support, (b) took him out when he was having a bad game or got tired.

It was the Angel years that cemented his "walks too many" reputation. One massive reason why he had so many walks was because the Angels rarely took him out. Anybody knows a pitcher starts walking guys when he gets tired. When he was throwing 300+ innings a season, he was walking 200 or so guys. That's also why he had so many losses. starters who get taken when they tire or are having a bad day will often get lucky and got a no decisions, Ryan never had that luxury.

But as his carrer went on and he stopped throwing so many innings a season, his walk ratios plummetted to respectable levels. Once he was in the more reasonable 200 innings a year average, he was walking around 80 guys a year. A massive difference that comes from (a) not being over worked, and (b) getting better at locating.

I swear to God, johnsamo, you're becoming my favorite poster. So much of your stuff reads like great fiction. What I remember is that Ryan had terrible control from the beginning of his career. Your analysis is going to have to recognize this before the rest of your argument has any credibility at all.

But since memories are flawed, let's go to the tape, shall we? Here are his last few years with the Mets, and his first few with the Angels. Do you see anything here that suggests all those extra innings were responsible for his bad control?

IP's BB BB/IP
134 -- 75 -- 0.559701493
89.33 -- 53 -- 0.59330572
131.67 -- 97 -- 0.73669021
152 -- 116 -- 0.763157895
284 -- 157 -- 0.552816901
326 -- 162 -- 0.496932515
332.67 -- 202 -- 0.607208345

[hwiggen]

Nolan Ryan was clearly one of the most talented pitchers of all time.
But he was nowhere near one of the BEST pitchers of all time. Not even close.

[thedude]

I remember in a highschool history class we were talking about sports in American culture. Our teacher asked us to list our top ten atheles of all-time. three of my teammates from the baseball team put Nolan Ryan in their top ten. top ten of ALL-TIME ATHELES! .


I tried to explain that he wasn't even one of the ten best pitchers in the history of the game, but i think i lost them after i discarded the stat about no-hitters.


The average american sports fan, just doesn't really know that much about sports. So they get impressed with guys like Nolan Ryan.

[PlayingWithFire]

I remember in a highschool history class we were talking about sports in American culture. Our teacher asked us to list our top ten atheles of all-time. three of my teammates from the baseball team put Nolan Ryan in their top ten. top ten of ALL-TIME ATHELES! .


I tried to explain that he wasn't even one of the ten best pitchers in the history of the game, but i think i lost them after i discarded the stat about no-hitters.


The average american sports fan, just doesn't really know that much about sports. So they get impressed with guys like Nolan Ryan.

BASEBALL GEEKS

[HOOTIE]

Ryan doesn't crack the top 25 ever.

As far as bad teams, Seaver actually played on teams with a lower win %, yet had a .603 win % to Ryans .522.

Taking a pitchers actual runs, versus his teams average runs, Ryan came up -9. So he lost 9 games he shouldn't in his career.

So his 324-292 record goes to 333-283.
Not alot of difference. his 87 season was a aberration of bad luck, getting a -6 that year, by far his really only bad luck year.

[Stejay]

Maybe number 25 or 26 of alltime.

[thedude]

I remember in a highschool history class we were talking about sports in American culture. Our teacher asked us to list our top ten atheles of all-time. three of my teammates from the baseball team put Nolan Ryan in their top ten. top ten of ALL-TIME ATHELES! .


I tried to explain that he wasn't even one of the ten best pitchers in the history of the game, but i think i lost them after i discarded the stat about no-hitters.


The average american sports fan, just doesn't really know that much about sports. So they get impressed with guys like Nolan Ryan.

BASEBALL GEEKS

IS that supposed to be an insult?

[PlayingWithFire]

I remember in a highschool history class we were talking about sports in American culture. Our teacher asked us to list our top ten atheles of all-time. three of my teammates from the baseball team put Nolan Ryan in their top ten. top ten of ALL-TIME ATHELES! .


I tried to explain that he wasn't even one of the ten best pitchers in the history of the game, but i think i lost them after i discarded the stat about no-hitters.


The average american sports fan, just doesn't really know that much about sports. So they get impressed with guys like Nolan Ryan.

BASEBALL GEEKS

IS that supposed to be an insult?

Yes

[Neato Torpedo]

Pete Rose is the greatest hitter of all time.

[Carnac]

In defense of the average american sports fan, Nolan Ryan WAS very impressive. He wasn't one of the top 25 of all time, but he was impressive.