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IS Gagne's rank to high?

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IS Gagne's rank to high?

Postby LimbadaArmada » Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:16 pm

Everyone in my yahoo fantasy league say that he is worthless becasue he only helps in one catagory (Saves). THey say he should be between 75-100 in ranking. ARe they stupid or am i for thinking he is awesome. THey only offer me people like Blalock for him because of that. I think thier crazy. DO you?
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Postby jskidder » Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:20 pm

absolutely. he has more k's than some starters and his ratios are great to go along with all those saves. i think his value is even greater this season with the closer mess that has been mlb thus far.
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:23 pm

Offering Blalock for him is crazy. That said, I agree that closers are overrated because they can only really help you in 1 category (saves). While they can help your ERA and WHIP and get you an occasional win, it is minimal because of their limited innings. IMHO, they can do more harm with a really bad outing than good with a great outing in ERA and WHIP.

Through all of this, I would expect to get a lot more than Blalock for him. It seems like they are trying to diminish his value and then lowball you.
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Postby guest » Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:26 pm

ESPN is bad for a lot of things, but their Player Rater is more accurate than Yahoo's ranking ... Take a look.
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Postby pkarr5000 » Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:27 pm

the thought of trading a hitter for a closer is pretty stupid, gagne gives you k's too so if i were you, i would go up to this guy and b****slap him
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Postby LimbadaArmada » Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:44 pm

I think he thinks ill give him up because i have smoltz too. But im not crazy!
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Postby flloyd » Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:45 pm

Although I might not consider Gagne a top 10 player like he is ranked he is certainly a top 30 along with Smoltz, Wagner and Foulke. Yes they may only help you in one stat but they won't hurt you in 2 others. I had the good fortune of having both Wagner and Smoltz on my team but ended up trading both of them away in order to improve my offense. So I endend up with closers like Mesa and Lincoln who killed my ERA and WHIP. Those who say that an excellent closer won't help your ERA are wrong. My ERA is probably .15-.20 because I had to go for closers like this rather than Smoltz and Wagner who would have lowered it.

Assuming a 1250 Inning limit

Having Mesa on your team would have given you 21 saves and added .216 to your ERA ((5.91 ERA*45.66 Innings)/1250 Innings).

Having Gagne on your team would have given you 36 saves and added only .072 to your ERA.

So the difference as of now between a person like Gagne, Smoltz or Wagner and someone like Mesa is about 10-20 more saves and .10-.15 ERA more with 15-30 less Ks. Not top 10 material but certainly worth a top 30. Especially because you only need one other decent closer and you will be strong in saves while not hurting your ERA and WHIP, while others go looking for the closer of the week who will inevitably burn you.
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:51 pm

I think that your stat proves that they can hurt more than help in those cats. Smoltz and Gagne are AWESOME closers but if they get 3 innings and 3 saves in a week, the ERA and WHIP are helped but only of they throw a combined 6 SO innings. Should they give up a run or 2, then they haven't really helped much there. If they happen to get shelled, then you are hammered. As for Mesa, etc., I would think that the increase in ERA and WHIP has more to do with who you GAINED rather than who you LOST.
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Postby jdh » Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:23 pm

Gagne and Smoltz are ranked top 10 in Yahoo, which doesn't really make sense given that they really only impact one category. Yes, they both have awesome ratios, and Gagne has lots of Ks, but the number of innings they pitch minimize the impact to the point you'd be better off getting a shakier closer and paying more for a starting pitcher to offset the impact of the closer.

I'd say that Gagne and Smoltz are both about 3rd round level players, top 30 to 36 overall. I would want more than Blalock for one of them, but you should be able to get at least a starter like Mulder, Hudson or Wood or a decent outfielder like Manny Ramirez, Giles, etc.
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Postby flloyd » Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:31 pm

Lofunzo, I don't see your point. Who cares if they have a bad week, I'm talking roto where end of the year numbers are all that matter (besides the fact that even if they gave gave up 1 or 2 runs in 6 innings that is still an ERA or 1.50 or 3.00 which will help your ERA :-D ).

Anyways my 10 team league is in a pretty close race for ERA with the 2nd through 8th place ERAs as follows:

3.65
3.70
3.76
3.81
3.88
3.90
3.94

Saves 2nd through 9th:

72
68
66
58
57
47
46
45


Lets assume that you had Gagne and Looper versus Mesa and Looper on your team and see how it would affect you ranking.

Gagne+ Looper= .21 added to your ERA with 58 saves
Mesa + Looper= .36 added to your ERA with 43 saves

So with Gagne rather than Mesa a team could move up about 2-3 spots in ERA, 3-4 in saves, not to mention how it would positively affect your WHIP and K rate (especially important with innings limits).

So having Gagne versus Mesa in my league would have moved you up potentially 8-12 points quite easily. Making him very valuable in my mind.
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