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Everything HGH (AKA The Plot Thickens)

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Postby mikhayl » Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:04 pm

Tokugawa wrote:There's an extreme element no doubt, but don't let the media blurr your vision as to the fact that most fans are decent people. But that would assume you have the ability to think for yourself. The game has done more for promoting development and equality in disadvantaged areas of the world than baseball ever has. I rather pay to watch real athletes than steroid abusing, HGH bloated, and amphetamine using punks.


I don't know. You can distinctly hear the "Mono" chants in games on tv. Are the decent fans stopping these idiots? No.

If some fools started screaming "monkey" at a baseball game, you damn well better believe they'd be stopped in a hurry by the fans who are decent people.

Have fun watching your scoreless tie dive-apaloozas.
Let's go O's. Let's go Mets.
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Postby j_d_mcnugent » Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:09 pm

Tokugawa wrote:It's time for baseball to move aside for the world cup, a competition that really does decide who the true world champions are, unlike the world series.

This new HGH scandal has really got me disillusioned with baseball. Time to concentrate on a real sport.


yeah cause soccer has never had any scandals. no refs have ever been paid off . no matches have ever been thrown. soccer is squeaky clean. :-°
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Postby Apollo » Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:54 pm

Though I don't want to keep this thread veering off-course, I do want to mention that I did read the real Fever Pitch, and it's a fantastic book. It made me all the more furious about the crummy Jimmy Fallon film...

Soccer has its share of idiots, like any sport. Historically, it hasn't done a very good job corralling those idiots, but that's not the fault of the sport, which is really amazing on the highest levels. It's more the result of the culture of the stadiums than anything else.
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Postby acsguitar » Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:56 pm

are we really talking about soccer here
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Using players' HGH cycles to your fantasy advantage? Giambi

Postby Splendid61 » Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:15 pm

After following Jason Giambi for the last few seasons, I became intrigued by the predictability of his homer binges and power slumps. Of course, most players go through streaks and slumps but they usually seem random and almost impossible to predict. Because Giambi's streaks are so extreme (3-week homerless droughts followed by double-digit month-long homer binges) and predictable, it is logical to guess that Giambi is likely cycling on and off of a performance enhancer. Illegal performance enhancers have to cycled (ie. 1 month on the substance followed by 1 month off the substance, etc.) for a number of reasons (ranging from the body getting used to the substance to serious health risks developing). Even legal performance enhancers like creatine are usually cycled.

Giambi's stats seem to indicate that after the Yankees stated they wanted to send him down to minors during his prolonged terrible start to the 2005 season (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7808005), he began cycling a performance enhancer.


2005 Season
Apr-03-2005 to Jul-03-2005: 5 HR in 187 AB (63 games)*
Jul-04-2005 to Aug-04-2005: 16 HR in 78 AB (26 games) <- Cycle on to performance enchancer
Aug-05-2005 to Aug-27-2005: 0 HR in 54 AB (19 games) <- Cycle off of performance enchancer
Aug-28-2005 to Sep-29-2005: 11 HR in 72 AB (29 games) <- Cycle on to performance enchancer

2006 Season
Apr-03-2006 to Apr-09-2006: 0 HR in 18 AB (6 games) <- Cycle on to performance enchancer
Apr-11-2006 to May-10-2006: 12 HR in 68 AB (24 games) <- Cycle on to performance enchancer
May-11-2006 to May-29-2006: 0 HR in 55 AB (16 games) <- Cycle on to performance enchancer
May-30-2006 to Jun-08-2006: 4 HR in 29 AB (7 games) <- Cycle on to performance enchancer

*Yanks talk about wanting to send Giambi down to the minors. Giambi refuses and, with his back up against the wall, resorts to cycling on and off an illegal substance (probably HGH since he had admitted to using it before*^* [2001-2003 seasons] and is undetectable to MLB drug tests).


The complete off-cycles are eerily similiar 3-week periods, 0 HR in 54 AB and 0 HR in 55 AB. Same goes for the complete on-cycles which are month long periods, 16 HR in 78 AB, 11 HR in 72 AB, and 12 HR in 68 AB.

From a fantasy aspect, it seems to make sense to trade for Giambi at the tail end of one of off-cycles (after his owner has endured a 3-week long homerless drought) and then unload him when his value has skyrocketed after a month-long homer binge.


*^*Here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on Giambi detailing past use of illegal performance enhancers:
Late in 2003 he was named by FBI officers investigating the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative (BALCO) as being one of the baseball players believed to have received anabolic steroids from trainer Greg Anderson.

On July 30th 2004, test results confirmed that Jason Giambi had a benign tumor which placed him on the disabled list. He was treated for the tumor, and returned to the team and played in a game on September 14th, his first since July 23rd.

On December 1, 2004, the San Francisco Chronicle announced that it had seen Giambi's 2003 grand jury testimony in the BALCO investigation. In his testimony, he admitted to using steroids from 2001 to 2003, and had injected himself with human growth hormone during the 2003 season. On December 2, 2004, the paper ran a front page story alleging that Giambi had not only injected human growth hormone in his stomach, and testosterone into his buttocks, but that he had rubbed an undetectable steroid known as "the cream" on his body and placed drops of another steroid, called "the clear" under his tongue. In his testimony, Giambi also admitted to believing that he thought he had taken Clomid, a female fertility drug, which doctors reported can aggravate a tumor of the pituitary gland.


My aim here isn't to debate whether steroids/HGH/other illegal performancers have a place in the game. Although without performance enhancers, it appears Giambi cannot be a productive major league hitter. He tried "valiantly" to play without their aid in 2004 and the first half of 2005, and his hitting was terrible. There are players like Barry Bonds and Ivan Rodriguez that can be effective without using performance enhancers (after using them in the past [Pudge's case] or prior to using them [Bond's case]). Giambi seems like a player that is absolutely dependent on performance enhancers to be productive.

But not to stray from the topic, the overall question I wanted to ask is if the collected Giambi data is reliable enough to use for fantasy purposes?


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Postby Tavish » Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:27 pm

But not to stray from the topic, the overall question I wanted to ask is if the collected Giambi data is reliable enough to use for fantasy purposes?


No.
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Postby stomperrob » Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:59 pm

Krunk City King$ wrote:i read a while back that starbucks or something was making a special coffee to be marketed towards baseball players....


It makes sense - it works and it's legal. I used to work with a guy about 15 years ago who was an amateur body builder (he once won the heavyweight championship). I don't know what he took for building muscle mass (legal or illegal I can't say) but I do know what he took for energy because I used to work out with him occasionly - before his workout he would fill his water bottle with about 10 oz of cold water and I can't remember the exact amount but he would put about 8 or 10 big spoonfuls of instant coffee in it and shake it up and chug it! Seemed to work for him.
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Do you fear that your players are "blacked out?"

Postby Y`s Guy » Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:03 pm

Imagine we are cruising along in fantasy land when all of sudden the blacked out names are released and BOOM(!!!) three are on your roster!! There's three 50-gamers there for the ol' suspension list.

Pick out your most successful and tell us what players you own that may be in that affidavit?

I have a runaway team and it has:

Lance Berkman?
Phil Nevin?

OK, no big loss w/ Nevin would Berkman would hurt badly.

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Re: Using players' HGH cycles to your fantasy advantage? Gia

Postby j_d_mcnugent » Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:52 pm

Splendid61 wrote:
But not to stray from the topic, the overall question I wanted to ask is if the collected Giambi data is reliable enough to use for fantasy purposes?


i dont think so. its probably just random. i know that it is highly unlikely it is the result of cycling on and off as the intervals are entirely too short. if you used thg and/or hgh it would help build up your muscle mass. your muscle mass wouldnt just disappear then after a few weeks. if you did the cycles properly the effects would last all season.
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:54 pm

stomperrob wrote:
Krunk City King$ wrote:i read a while back that starbucks or something was making a special coffee to be marketed towards baseball players....


It makes sense - it works and it's legal. I used to work with a guy about 15 years ago who was an amateur body builder (he once won the heavyweight championship). I don't know what he took for building muscle mass (legal or illegal I can't say) but I do know what he took for energy because I used to work out with him occasionly - before his workout he would fill his water bottle with about 10 oz of cold water and I can't remember the exact amount but he would put about 8 or 10 big spoonfuls of instant coffee in it and shake it up and chug it! Seemed to work for him.


could be he was just after caffeine. caffeine is a legal stimulant. excessive levels used to be banned by olympic sports but i believe its now considered acceptable.
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