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Yankee Article(Shows Red Sox team with injuries we had)

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Postby baseball4life752 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:50 pm

yeah Ortiz and Manny are better players, but losing your captain could be tough. The pitchers will also have to pitch to Mirabelli the whole time and whos his backup?
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Postby blankman » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:30 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:I'd rather the Red Sox be missing Manny than Ortiz.


Same here.

ESPN would be the ones most upset by an Ortiz injury.


And anyway, how the heck could Ortiz get injured anyway? Its not like he plays the field or runs.
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Postby blankman » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:30 am

baseball4life752 wrote:yeah Ortiz and Manny are better players, but losing your captain could be tough. The pitchers will also have to pitch to Mirabelli the whole time and whos his backup?


Didn't they just get Lopez?
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:17 am

Octavian wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:I'd rather the Red Sox be missing Manny than Ortiz.


Why? Ortiz does more across the board and without all the baggage.


Manny is the better player. He's produced more than Ortiz this year and throughout his career. Eliminate him and you eliminate Boston's biggest threat.

I'd like to add that I'm not wishing injury on anyone, just saying that I'd rather see the Red Sox without Ramirez than without Ortiz.
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Postby baseball4life752 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:09 pm

Ha ok they just got lopez so they should be okay i guess.
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Postby Strasil42 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:12 pm

blankman wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:I'd rather the Red Sox be missing Manny than Ortiz.


Same here.

ESPN would be the ones most upset by an Ortiz injury.


And anyway, how the heck could Ortiz get injured anyway? Its not like he plays the field or runs.


No kidding. The only way I see that happening is if one of the AC units in the dugout/clubhouse exploded or something while he was resting between at-bats.
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Postby Octavian » Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:45 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
Octavian wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:I'd rather the Red Sox be missing Manny than Ortiz.


Why? Ortiz does more across the board and without all the baggage.


Manny is the better player. He's produced more than Ortiz this year and throughout his career. Eliminate him and you eliminate Boston's biggest threat.


Well, Manny's (13 seasons) career is longer than Ortiz (9 seasons).

Ortiz:
2003- 448 AB/.288/31/101/.369OBP
2004- 582 AB/.301/41/139/.380
2005- 601 AB/.300/47/148/.397
2006- 412 AB/.289/39/107/.393

Manny:
2003- 569 AB/.325/37/104/.427OBP
2004- 569 AB/.308/43/130/.397
2005- 568 AB/.292/45/144/.388
2006- 372 AB/.314/30/86/.317

Since 2003, Oritz's first year in Boston he's out produced Manny, albeit not by much. Manny's OBP is going down, and Ortiz's is going up. And this year, Ortiz is clearly the better offensive player. You can argue that Papi is getting more AB, but that's only a solid argument for 2005 and is heavily in favor or Papi in '03. Plus you could just argue he gets more AB because he stays healthy longer, even though it's because he DHs far more than Manny. Regardless, his numbers and other issues I suppose you can factor in such as the "clutch" aspect of Ortiz, and the lack of attitude problems... though those are completely speculative and unmeasurable elements, they still have some value.

Personally, I'd rather see them without the rising star and not the setting sun, though the damage of losing either or would probably be about equal.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:04 am

Octavian wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Octavian wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:I'd rather the Red Sox be missing Manny than Ortiz.


Why? Ortiz does more across the board and without all the baggage.


Manny is the better player. He's produced more than Ortiz this year and throughout his career. Eliminate him and you eliminate Boston's biggest threat.


Well, Manny's (13 seasons) career is longer than Ortiz (9 seasons).

Ortiz:
2003- 448 AB/.288/31/101/.369OBP
2004- 582 AB/.301/41/139/.380
2005- 601 AB/.300/47/148/.397
2006- 412 AB/.289/39/107/.393

Manny:
2003- 569 AB/.325/37/104/.427OBP
2004- 569 AB/.308/43/130/.397
2005- 568 AB/.292/45/144/.388
2006- 372 AB/.314/30/86/.317

Since 2003, Oritz's first year in Boston he's out produced Manny, albeit not by much. Manny's OBP is going down, and Ortiz's is going up. And this year, Ortiz is clearly the better offensive player. You can argue that Papi is getting more AB, but that's only a solid argument for 2005 and is heavily in favor or Papi in '03. Plus you could just argue he gets more AB because he stays healthy longer, even though it's because he DHs far more than Manny. Regardless, his numbers and other issues I suppose you can factor in such as the "clutch" aspect of Ortiz, and the lack of attitude problems... though those are completely speculative and unmeasurable elements, they still have some value.

Personally, I'd rather see them without the rising star and not the setting sun, though the damage of losing either or would probably be about equal.


The clutch thing is BS. Ortiz supplied better production in 2005 (even then it was extremely close), but other than that, Ramirez has been the better player (including this year, so far).

Obviously a loss of Ortiz would cripple their team as well, but Manny would destroy it IMO.
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