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Liriano pitch count...

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Postby acsguitar » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:27 am

Shoot I don't care let him throw 6 every game K 7 people and get a win.

It doesn't eat up my innings in my point league.
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Postby Big Game JLo » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:04 pm

I kinda agree. I hate seeing these guys pitch to much over 100, even if they are doing great. I guess I'm just a fantasy manager who's owned guys like Mark Prior & Kerry Wood. Seeing what Crusty Baker has done to those two just makes me wince when I see any pitcher that is in too long.

From a fantasy prospective, I don't need a potential DL stint just to salvage an extra inning or two.
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Postby bucksox » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:55 pm

I know it's a new era of baseball, but I think we are looking a little to hard at pitch count these days. Historically this was never a big issue. Now it is such a big deal. It might have more to do with the way programs are rushing the development of pitchers that is having them have arm problems. I do not know that, but just a thought.
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Postby Smee » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:16 pm

bucksox wrote:I know it's a new era of baseball, but I think we are looking a little to hard at pitch count these days. Historically this was never a big issue. Now it is such a big deal. It might have more to do with the way programs are rushing the development of pitchers that is having them have arm problems. I do not know that, but just a thought.


I think the pitch count is a great thing. It's quatifying how much wear a pitcher is taking. I think the mistake lies in how it is sometime applied.

If a pitcher historicly pitches well past the 100 pitch mark (i.e. Livan Hernandez) then he should be fine to continue after he's reached that mark. If another pitcher (especially a MR) reaches the 100 pitch mark there's a bit more cause for concern.

Pitch counts aren't perfect, but at least it's attempt to put some numbers behind the decision to pull the pitcher or leave him in.
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Postby Hobbes » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:32 pm

While it is true that pitch counts were not an issue for pitchers of the past, their bodies were accustomed to the higher workload. Pitchers today are not conditioned to pitch 160 pitches each game, and that is why you cannot simply let them pitch with no limits (or much higher limits) even if that is what pitchers used to do.

A world-class sprinter might be in top physical condition, but that doesn't mean he will be able to run a marathon. His muscles just aren't conditioned that way. Similarly, pitchers today are not physically conditioned to pitch very high pitch counts. Perhaps if changes were implemented throughout the minor leagues through to the majors that could change, but that is unlikely.
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Postby GAC8666 » Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:02 pm

Snakes Gould wrote:i say you let a pitcher with a no no keep going until he lets up a hit. maybe its just the traditionalist in me but 140 really isnt that many pitches, especially when it comes to the history of the game.


You gotta think. Hes 22 years old. They dont want to "Mark Prior" him and make him picth 120+ otches a game be gerat for a year and be on the Dl for half the season for the next 10 years. PLus he was a MR and hes arm strength was not of a SP. Every start this year he has pitched more innings and picthes. They are devolping the arm strength which is key to young pictchers. I have Liriano on my team and I would love for him to go 9 inninsg every night and K 10-15 batters a night. But i also want to see him picth for the next 10 years.
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Postby bucksox » Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:16 pm

[quote="Hobbes"]A world-class sprinter might be in top physical condition, but that doesn't mean he will be able to run a marathon. His muscles just aren't conditioned that way. Similarly, pitchers today are not physically conditioned to pitch very high pitch counts. [quote]

Come on. Really? This isn't really a good comparison. You are talking about 2 very different events in sprinting and long distance. Fast versus Slow twitch muscles. I see where you are going and get the idea but... come on. I guess if I was saying you should let closers pitch 100+ pitches then you could make this argument. I think where I was coming from is that even if a young pitcher is "cruisin" in a game and he reaches the magic number, you see more often than not that he gets yanked "just to be on the safe side.
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Postby Mugrila » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:00 pm

bucksox wrote:
Hobbes wrote:A world-class sprinter might be in top physical condition, but that doesn't mean he will be able to run a marathon. His muscles just aren't conditioned that way. Similarly, pitchers today are not physically conditioned to pitch very high pitch counts.


Come on. Really? This isn't really a good comparison. You are talking about 2 very different events in sprinting and long distance. Fast versus Slow twitch muscles. I see where you are going and get the idea but... come on. I guess if I was saying you should let closers pitch 100+ pitches then you could make this argument. I think where I was coming from is that even if a young pitcher is "cruisin" in a game and he reaches the magic number, you see more often than not that he gets yanked "just to be on the safe side.




Not that the sprinter-marathon comparison is great, but it has some value. I'd say its more like somebody who is used to running 100m sprints going to running 300m. They are using small steps with Liriano to make sure his arm is ready. Before his first start, he had never pitched more than 3 innings in a row this season.
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