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Postby cordscords » Sat May 27, 2006 12:12 pm

Put me in the middle of this little argument.

Gagne is not a complete injury risk. However you should take a cautious approach in trading for him, and if you already own him and get an offer of a proven player who isnt an injury risk, take it and run.
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Postby rainman23 » Sat May 27, 2006 12:44 pm

benjapage wrote:he returned to pitch effectively at the end of the season. the pain he felt in spring was from a nerve that has now been removed.


I don't want to pile on you, Benjapage, but I'll just ask why I keep seeing these posts where you're very optimistic about Gagne because he had a nerve removed. No sarcasm intended here -- are you a doctor? Because to me, a complete layman, having a nerve removed doesn't necessarily sound like a positive thing...
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Postby George_Foreman » Sat May 27, 2006 1:03 pm

cordscords wrote:Put me in the middle of this little argument.

Gagne is not a complete injury risk. However you should take a cautious approach in trading for him, and if you already own him and get an offer of a proven player who isnt an injury risk, take it and run.
I agree. It's the time off that concerns me the most rather than the injuries. I mean, any surgery around the throwing elbow is something of a worry, but these proceedures aren't exactly the type that throw up huge red flags. Be warry, but if you can get Gagne for cheap, he's a great gamble.

Oh, and as long as I'm listening to the Braves broadcast, Chip Caray is awful.
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Postby NikkiSixx » Sat May 27, 2006 1:05 pm

I really hope Gagne comes back and stays healthy, he is a fantastic closer and the Dodgers could really use him right now.
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Postby bleedtheblue » Sat May 27, 2006 1:20 pm

[quote="benjapage"]why wouldn't he stay healthy? he's what, 30? he had a nerve removed: it can no longer hurt him. unless there's another sneaky ninja injury that hasn't been publicized, i see no reason why he couldn't effectively rock the bump in the 9th.

b[/quote]

The nerve was not "removed". If you remove a nerve, you will lose function of the muscles it supplies. He would have trouble holding a damn fork, let alone throwing a baseball if they removed the nerve.

[quote]Dr. Frank Jobe and Dr. Ralph Gambardella discovered a slight tear from the original graft that was used when Gagne underwent Tommy John surgery in 1997. The doctors repaired the partial tear and cut out scar tissue along the nerves, which were causing Gagne pain.[/quote]

The removal of excessive scar tissue around the nerve has a much better prognosis. I would be more concerned about the "partial tear" of the graft (i.e., reconstructed ligament). I have Gagne and agree with some of the other posts that everything I get from him the rest of the way is a bonus.
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Postby johnsamo » Sat May 27, 2006 2:02 pm

I read once that the best indicator of a pitcher's likelihood for a future injury is a past history of injuries... In other words, I wouldn't overpay for the guy. That said, the Dodgers are doing OK and are in a position where they don't have to overtax him out of the gate. Unlike last year, where it was obvious in spring training his knee was bad yet they still threw him and I think the knee effected his delivery and led to the arm problems... I think that more than the bad season is what got Tracy fired. He had no business being out there on the mound.

If he can just get back to 95% of what he was, he'll be one of the best closers out there. Might take him a while though to refind his location. He's been sitting a long time and that groove he had can take a while to find again.
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Postby BigZ38 » Sat May 27, 2006 2:12 pm

At this point, what players would you trade straight up for Gagne?

I'm looking for a starting pitcher, and am wondering who is fair value.
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Postby Pedantic » Sat May 27, 2006 2:14 pm

benjapage wrote:i think you guys might be succumbing to the momentum of myth.

this surgery from a year ago was non-structural--a clean-up, if you will. he returned to pitch effectively at the end of the season. the pain he felt in spring was from a nerve that has now been removed.

call me a fool--i'm not out to win a popularity contest--but i hold pretty fast to the notion that his return will be successful.

b


For the sake of several of my teams, I hope you're right.
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Postby benjapage » Sat May 27, 2006 2:40 pm

i'm on board with nearly everything that has been posted since my last comment.

regarding his most recent procedure i was under the impression that the nerve was removed, but hey, i'm only reciting what i read.

but whether they were removing a nerve or the scar tissue around it, it is encouraging to know that the procedure was not structural. in fact, the linked article suggests that the repair was in "good condition" and in fact, "too good to discard."

again, i don't have an axe to grind, but i've noticed people throwing around the doomed-to-fall-apart crap too often. sometimes, people actually, well, heal. it does happen.

b
yeah, yes...
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Postby Yoda » Sat May 27, 2006 2:48 pm

benjapage wrote: repair was in "good condition" and in fact, "too good to discard."

again, i don't have an axe to grind, but i've noticed people throwing around the doomed-to-fall-apart crap too often. sometimes, people actually, well, heal. it does happen.

b


Gagne comes with a long history of elbow/arm related injury. Perhaps I am the least enthusiastic since the team and Gagne hid the elbow problem all through Spring Training and then announced suddenly that he has an injury and will miss significant time.

Any report about him coming back should be taken with a grain of salt at this point and while I really hope he does come back even close to the way he was before this latest injury, I have serious doubts that it will hold up.
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