josebach wrote:What did Jeter do in the 2004 ALCS? 6 R, 0 HR, 4 RBI .200 BA
A-Rod? 8 R, 2 HR, 5 RBI, .258 BA
Yet we constantly see how bad A-Rod choked and see absolutley nothing negative about Jeter.
From a personality standpoint, even I like Jeter more than A-Rod, but I'm not going to let it cloud my judgement.
We get it. Jeter sucked in the ALCS.
Jeter hasnt sucked in the playoffs before, and A-Rod (given in only a coulple season in the playoffs) has not had that huge moment.
How wrong you are.
1996 World Series: .250 BA 1998 ALDS: .111 BA 1998 ALCS: .200 BA 2000 ALDS: .211 BA 2001 ALCS: .118 BA 2001 World Series: .148 BA 2003 ALCS: .233 BA
Jeter has played in 23 series during the playoffs. I'm not sure how he did in the other series that you didnt mention (and I don't care to look it up) but if those are the only bad series, that would make 16 good ones to 7 bad.
Sure Jeter has had his fair shair of games, but more times than not you can count on him.
That about sum up the typical Yankee fan mentality?
I really hope the Yankees will be happy with whoever they get to replace A-Rod when they run him out of town.
Basically.
Has Giambi ever won for the Yanks? No. Has Matsui ever won for the Yanks? No. Has Sheff ever won for the Yanks? No. Has Mussina ever won for the Yanks? No. Has RJ ever won for the Yanks? No.
They're all fine though. It's 100% A-Rod's fault that the Yankees haven't won a World Series in all of his TWO years in pinstripes.
cordscords wrote:Jeter has played in 23 series during the playoffs. I'm not sure how he did in the other series that you didnt mention (and I don't care to look it up) but if those are the only bad series, that would make 16 good ones to 7 bad.
Sure Jeter has had his fair shair of games, but more times than not you can count on him.
Of course you can count on him more times than not. He's a good player. If you couldn't count on him more times than not, he wouldn't be a good player. Good players perform. Bottom line. A-Rod has performed. Jeter has performed. Ortiz has performed. Pujols has performed. Good players will perform.
cordscords wrote:Jeter has played in 23 series during the playoffs. I'm not sure how he did in the other series that you didnt mention (and I don't care to look it up) but if those are the only bad series, that would make 16 good ones to 7 bad.
Sure Jeter has had his fair shair of games, but more times than not you can count on him.
Of course you can count on him more times than not. He's a good player. If you couldn't count on him more times than not, he wouldn't be a good player. Good players perform. Bottom line. A-Rod has performed. Jeter has performed. Ortiz has performed. Pujols has performed. Good players will perform.
man i feel for you. just let it go. let them dearly hold on to what they want to believe.
if the yanks win a WS with arod, they'll either be all over his nuts or still denying him credit. either way, it'll be pathetic.
their only hope lies in the yanks never winning a WS with arod on the team.
That about sum up the typical Yankee fan mentality?
I really hope the Yankees will be happy with whoever they get to replace A-Rod when they run him out of town.
Basically.
Has Giambi ever won for the Yanks? No. Has Matsui ever won for the Yanks? No. Has Sheff ever won for the Yanks? No. Has Mussina ever won for the Yanks? No. Has RJ ever won for the Yanks? No.
They're all fine though. It's 100% A-Rod's fault that the Yankees haven't won a World Series in all of his TWO years in pinstripes.
I agree that he shoulders most of the blame for losses, warranted or not. Besides RJ (puke), I like all those other guys and I guess A-Rod just takes the hits from fans because he's the biggest player on the team.
As far as A-Rod by himself, I like the guy and definitely glad he's a Yankee. Frustrated with him right now? Sure, but it doesn't change that he's performed here ("clutch" or not) and is a top player in baseball. I agree with you on the latter comment. Bottomline is the Yankees have been in the playoffs and have won divisions for a while now, and playoff losses can't be put on one player alone. If everyone else performed up to expectations and A-Rod didn't even get so much as a base hit, we'd still be seeing more Yankees WS wins.
That about sum up the typical Yankee fan mentality?
I really hope the Yankees will be happy with whoever they get to replace A-Rod when they run him out of town.
Basically.
Has Giambi ever won for the Yanks? No. Has Matsui ever won for the Yanks? No. Has Sheff ever won for the Yanks? No. Has Mussina ever won for the Yanks? No. Has RJ ever won for the Yanks? No.
They're all fine though. It's 100% A-Rod's fault that the Yankees haven't won a World Series in all of his TWO years in pinstripes.
I agree that he shoulders most of the blame for losses, warranted or not. Besides RJ (puke), I like all those other guys and I guess A-Rod just takes the hits from fans because he's the biggest player on the team.
As far as A-Rod by himself, I like the guy and definitely glad he's a Yankee. Frustrated with him right now? Sure, but it doesn't change that he's performed here ("clutch" or not) and is a top player in baseball. I agree with you on the latter comment. Bottomline is the Yankees have been in the playoffs and have won divisions for a while now, and playoff losses can't be put on one player alone. If everyone else performed up to expectations and A-Rod didn't even get so much as a base hit, we'd still be seeing more Yankees WS wins.
This is all I've been saying. If you want to get technical about it, A-Rod would be a hero if Mariano Rivera doesn't blow Game 4 of the ALCS. A-Rod becomes MVP of that series, the Yanks win a ring in his first year in pinstripes. People worship the guy.
But Mariano blew the game, the Yankees lose and Alex doesn't get a ring. On top of that, the hated RED SOX win, and the whole 2004 season turns into hell for Yankee fans. And people don't remember the big hits A-Rod got for the Yankees. They remember one thing: the loss. The Yankees lost. A-Rod was supposed to be our grand savior but we lost. Not only did we lose, we lost to the Red Sox. How could this happen? F--- A-Rod. He didn't win us a title. What a choker...
Dug up this old post by Transmogrofier. This does a nice job of eliminating 'Jeter is clutch' talk.
Transmogrofier on February 18th, 2004 wrote:OK, I hope this ends the "Jeter is clutch" debate forever, although I feel it won't.
Here are his career postseason stats in "clutch" situations:
Runners in scoring position: .210/.355/.306
Runners on base: .245/.345/.329
And here are his postseason stats (over the last four seasons, as the stats are unavailble for longer than that) in "close and late" situations, defined as "results in the 7th inning or later with the batting team either ahead by one run, tied or with the potential tying run at least on deck," is:
BronXBombers51 wrote:This is all I've been saying. If you want to get technical about it, A-Rod would be a hero if Mariano Rivera doesn't blow Game 4 of the ALCS. A-Rod becomes MVP of that series, the Yanks win a ring in his first year in pinstripes. People worship the guy.
But Mariano blew the game, the Yankees lose and Alex doesn't get a ring. On top of that, the hated RED SOX win, and the whole 2004 season turns into hell for Yankee fans. And people don't remember the big hits A-Rod got for the Yankees. They remember one thing: the loss. The Yankees lost. A-Rod was supposed to be our grand savior but we lost. Not only did we lose, we lost to the Red Sox. How could this happen? F--- A-Rod. He didn't win us a title. What a choker...
This is a great point. I actually blame fenway's midget fence for making tony clark get a ground rule double where in any ANY other ballpark its a normal double that scores the winning run
nuggets wrote: Fact is, most Yankee fans don't know what the hell they're talking about, and it's why I can't stand most Yankee fans.
Amen to that! As a lifelong Met fan living in NY, there is no one more arrogant and at the same time more clueless than most young Yankee fans. I won't lump every Yankee fan into the equation. The fans who have grown up in the 90s with the championship teams are spoiled and think they deserve a World Series title every single year, and if they don't win it, it has to be everything else's fault.
Yankee fans have also, in many cases, been very hostile towards incoming superstars - Clemens wasn't loved because he was a former Red Sox player, and because the beloved Wells was traded for him, witness ARod now. All Arod does is put up monster numbers, and the fact that he doesn't always come through sticks out a lot more with him than it does with other players because of his all-world status. He gets his share of "clutch" hits, they just haven't been the last hit of hte game or the ones that won the game in the Yanks last at-bat like some of Jeter's have been.
This coming from a guy who owns ARod in three leagues this year and is frustrated as all hell.
BronXBombers51 wrote:Dug up this old post by Transmogrofier. This does a nice job of eliminating 'Jeter is clutch' talk.
Transmogrofier on February 18th, 2004 wrote:OK, I hope this ends the "Jeter is clutch" debate forever, although I feel it won't.
Here are his career postseason stats in "clutch" situations:
Runners in scoring position: .210/.355/.306
Runners on base: .245/.345/.329
And here are his postseason stats (over the last four seasons, as the stats are unavailble for longer than that) in "close and late" situations, defined as "results in the 7th inning or later with the batting team either ahead by one run, tied or with the potential tying run at least on deck," is:
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by cordscords » Tue May 23, 2006 5:30 pm 
You can argue that he is "sometimes" clutch, but he is in no way clutch. 
