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The HOLD category is a joke

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Postby wrveres » Thu May 18, 2006 4:15 am

NZF wrote:
wrveres wrote:

well then that runner wasn't inherited, it was his baserunner IE he put him on via hit or BB, and if that baserunner comes around and scores to tie the game, even if he is not on the mound anymore, he is indeed credited with a blown save.



Exactly, yet he still gets credited with a hold :-t


no he doesn't


hmmmm ..
wait a minute, maybe he does .. cus he 'left the game'.
Your right he does get a hold ..

yeah that part needs to go, or be fixed ..
Same with a closer getting a B/S and a Win. Nobody should get credit for the 'win'. It should be a 'Team Win', kind of like a team rebound in basketball..

I'll put in a call to Bud for you first thing in the morning :-D
Last edited by wrveres on Thu May 18, 2006 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bigh0rt » Thu May 18, 2006 4:16 am

wrveres wrote:
NZF wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
I enjoy using holds because you're required to utilize baseball players otherwise owned in 0% of leagues, which in turn, forces more quality starters and closers into Free Agency. It also takes skill in finding not only the pen arms who will give you hold opportunities, but ones who will help your ratios as well.

All in all, I like the hold for fantasy just as much as I do the Win or Save.


Since it is such a big crapshoot to get holds and it wastes roster space to do it, why not just punt them like I am?

You guys may be interested to know that I actually own Turnbow in this H2H league and I'm likely to win holds this week now even though my opponent has 2 MR's and I've got zilch. Go figure.

Dumb category.


odds are you wont win ..

checkback at the end of the week, and let us know please..
who are his releivers ?


Yeah, if 1 hold is winning it for you, then I imagine a lot of your league is punting them and not just you. On an 11 man staff with no bench, I go with 5/3/3 for Starters/Closers/Setup Men, with most of my league going 6/3/2 or 5/4/2. I never punt categories, especially in H2H. On average, 3 holds should put you in line for at least a tie in the category in a given week, but 1 should almost never, ever win it for you.

With Farnsworth, Rincon, and Soriano, so far this week I have 1, last week had 3 (5 Saves), week before I had 3 (5 saves again), and the week prior to that I had 5 holds (4 saves).

As always, to each their own, but I like what it brings to a league, and the strategy it forces owners to use, where they otherwise wouldn't have had to.
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Postby NZF » Thu May 18, 2006 4:17 am

wrveres wrote:odds are you wont win ..

checkback at the end of the week, and let us know please..
who are his releivers ?


Looper and Vizcaino. He also spot started Cruz today :-D
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Postby bigh0rt » Thu May 18, 2006 4:21 am

NZF wrote:
wrveres wrote:odds are you wont win ..

checkback at the end of the week, and let us know please..
who are his releivers ?


Looper and Vizcaino. He also spot started Cruz today :-D


11 holds for the 2 combined in 7 weeks. Vizcaino should be able to at least tie your 1, but I'm not sure why he's carrying Looper for holds; I imagine there are much better options in Free Agency, with you (and I imagine others) punting the category completely.
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Postby NZF » Thu May 18, 2006 4:27 am

bigh0rt wrote:
Yeah, if 1 hold is winning it for you, then I imagine a lot of your league is punting them and not just you. On an 11 man staff with no bench, I go with 5/3/3 for Starters/Closers/Setup Men, with most of my league going 6/3/2 or 5/4/2. I never punt categories, especially in H2H. On average, 3 holds should put you in line for at least a tie in the category in a given week, but 1 should almost never, ever win it for you.



No one else is punting them and 1 hold would have won me or at least tied me 3 of the 7 weeks. It's a crapshoot like no other category and it should be wiped.
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Postby wrveres » Thu May 18, 2006 4:28 am

NZF wrote:
wrveres wrote:odds are you wont win ..

checkback at the end of the week, and let us know please..
who are his releivers ?


Looper and Vizcaino. He also spot started Cruz today :-D


yeah 90% he will beat you ...
He has at least 6 chances this weekend to your none at the worst its a tie, so he wins half a point.

And with something like Cruz blowing up, while his ERA is screwed for the week, the WHIP is still salvagable, and two solid guys in the pen can help you fix that, in a weekly matchup.
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Postby wrveres » Thu May 18, 2006 4:34 am

NZF wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
Yeah, if 1 hold is winning it for you, then I imagine a lot of your league is punting them and not just you. On an 11 man staff with no bench, I go with 5/3/3 for Starters/Closers/Setup Men, with most of my league going 6/3/2 or 5/4/2. I never punt categories, especially in H2H. On average, 3 holds should put you in line for at least a tie in the category in a given week, but 1 should almost never, ever win it for you.



No one else is punting them and 1 hold would have won me or at least tied me 3 of the 7 weeks. It's a crapshoot like no other category and it should be wiped.


well the only reason its a crapshoot is because of position scarcity.
If nobody else in your league is punting, thats at least 22 MR's on rosters that aren't closers, and I don't think there are 22 real "8th inning guys" in baseball to get 'holds' ... the rest are kind of spread around...

I like to target lefties myself ;-7
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Postby NZF » Thu May 18, 2006 4:38 am

wrveres wrote:


I'll put in a call to Bud for you first thing in the morning :-D


Thanks, the wife and kids would appreciate that.
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Postby davidmarver » Thu May 18, 2006 4:39 am

If the 'save' or 'hold' were a "true" interpretation of how well the reliever pitched, what would be the point of the statistic? We already have ERA (or ERA+) and WHIP to tell us how well a pitcher has pitched. In a fantasy sense, it gives us more to think about; which teams will have the lead more to lead to holds, and which teams play in a large amount of low-scoring games.
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Postby NZF » Thu May 18, 2006 4:45 am

wrveres wrote:
NZF wrote:
wrveres wrote:odds are you wont win ..

checkback at the end of the week, and let us know please..
who are his releivers ?


Looper and Vizcaino. He also spot started Cruz today :-D


yeah 90% he will beat you ...
He has at least 6 chances this weekend to your none at the worst its a tie, so he wins half a point.

And with something like Cruz blowing up, while his ERA is screwed for the week, the WHIP is still salvagable, and two solid guys in the pen can help you fix that, in a weekly matchup.



Cards are at Kansas so that cuts his chances down to 3 ;-) Vizcaino has pitched 3 of the past 4 days and not looked like getting a hold so why should that change. At worst I win 1-0. At best I win 3-0 with another couple of burgled holds by Gonzalez and Turnbow ;-7
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