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The HOLD category is a joke

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Postby number9 » Thu May 18, 2006 3:41 am

Holds are just as silly as Saves. So, if there's Saves cat, I also like having a Holds cat.

And I assume that in an experienced league it's more difficult to pick up good MR off waivers than in a league full of beginners or something.
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Postby bigh0rt » Thu May 18, 2006 3:52 am

number9 wrote:Holds are just as silly as Saves. So, if there's Saves cat, I also like having a Holds cat.

And I assume that in an experienced league it's more difficult to pick up good MR off waivers than in a league full of beginners or something.


You'd be surprised. While I agree with WRs that the save and the hold are essentially the identical category at different points in the game, as has been said, several pitchers in a single game can record a hold, and they're about as sporadic as can be. Past the top, maybe, 5 guys, it's incredibly unpredictible what roles different bullpen parts will go through. I've found that since I started playing in leagues that count holds, I use probably a dozen more Add/Drops than previously, trying to fill 1 or 2 setup men as necessary...

I mean, did YOU peg Zumaya to be leading the league in holds at this point in the season?? Or Coffey to be 3rd??

I enjoy using holds because you're required to utilize baseball players otherwise owned in 0% of leagues, which in turn, forces more quality starters and closers into Free Agency. It also takes skill in finding not only the pen arms who will give you hold opportunities, but ones who will help your ratios as well.

All in all, I like the hold for fantasy just as much as I do the Win or Save.
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Postby NZF » Thu May 18, 2006 3:56 am

wrveres wrote:

its three runs for a hold too...


Yeah I realised that after I typed it, hence the editing.

Fair enough, it makes it a little more credible but this inherited runner thing still bugs me.

Yes Turnbow would have been more deserving in that instance because he got out of the innings with the lead intact. By leaving runners for someone else that should automatically negate the hold if these other runners score. If inherited runners aren't the responsibility of the pitcher then why does that pitcher get a hit to their ERA?
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Postby wrveres » Thu May 18, 2006 4:00 am

NZF wrote:
wrveres wrote:

its three runs for a hold too...


Yeah I realised that after I typed it, hence the editing.

Fair enough, it makes it a little more credible but this inherited runner thing still bugs me.

Yes Turnbow would have been more deserving in that instance because he got out of the innings with the lead intact. By leaving runners for someone else that should automatically negate the hold if these other runners score. If inherited runners aren't the responsibility of the pitcher then why does that pitcher get a hit to their ERA?
well then that runner wasn't inherited, it was his baserunner IE he put him on via hit or BB, and if that baserunner comes around and scores to tie the game, even if he is not on the mound anymore, he is indeed credited with a blown save.
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Postby wrveres » Thu May 18, 2006 4:05 am

bigh0rt wrote:
number9 wrote:Holds are just as silly as Saves. So, if there's Saves cat, I also like having a Holds cat.

And I assume that in an experienced league it's more difficult to pick up good MR off waivers than in a league full of beginners or something.


You'd be surprised. While I agree with WRs that the save and the hold are essentially the identical category at different points in the game, as has been said, several pitchers in a single game can record a hold, and they're about as sporadic as can be. Past the top, maybe, 5 guys, it's incredibly unpredictible what roles different bullpen parts will go through. I've found that since I started playing in leagues that count holds, I use probably a dozen more Add/Drops than previously, trying to fill 1 or 2 setup men as necessary...

I mean, did YOU peg Zumaya to be leading the league in holds at this point in the season?? Or Coffey to be 3rd??

I enjoy using holds because you're required to utilize baseball players otherwise owned in 0% of leagues, which in turn, forces more quality starters and closers into Free Agency. It also takes skill in finding not only the pen arms who will give you hold opportunities, but ones who will help your ratios as well.

All in all, I like the hold for fantasy just as much as I do the Win or Save.


What they should do, is just rename the 'save' to 'hold' or visa versa. It would essentialy make all relievers the same, and might even have an added benefit. Managers would be more inclined to use their best relievers when they need them instead of making them sit for an entire week (ie Bruce Bochy's handling of Trevor Hoffman) .. :-t
Last edited by wrveres on Thu May 18, 2006 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby NZF » Thu May 18, 2006 4:06 am

bigh0rt wrote:
I enjoy using holds because you're required to utilize baseball players otherwise owned in 0% of leagues, which in turn, forces more quality starters and closers into Free Agency. It also takes skill in finding not only the pen arms who will give you hold opportunities, but ones who will help your ratios as well.

All in all, I like the hold for fantasy just as much as I do the Win or Save.


Since it is such a big crapshoot to get holds and it wastes roster space to do it, why not just punt them like I am?

You guys may be interested to know that I actually own Turnbow in this H2H league and I'm likely to win holds this week now even though my opponent has 2 MR's and I've got zilch. Go figure.

Dumb category.
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Postby wrveres » Thu May 18, 2006 4:08 am

NZF wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
I enjoy using holds because you're required to utilize baseball players otherwise owned in 0% of leagues, which in turn, forces more quality starters and closers into Free Agency. It also takes skill in finding not only the pen arms who will give you hold opportunities, but ones who will help your ratios as well.

All in all, I like the hold for fantasy just as much as I do the Win or Save.


Since it is such a big crapshoot to get holds and it wastes roster space to do it, why not just punt them like I am?

You guys may be interested to know that I actually own Turnbow in this H2H league and I'm likely to win holds this week now even though my opponent has 2 MR's and I've got zilch. Go figure.

Dumb category.


odds are you wont win ..

checkback at the end of the week, and let us know please..
who are his releivers ?
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Postby bigh0rt » Thu May 18, 2006 4:08 am

wrveres wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
number9 wrote:Holds are just as silly as Saves. So, if there's Saves cat, I also like having a Holds cat.

And I assume that in an experienced league it's more difficult to pick up good MR off waivers than in a league full of beginners or something.


You'd be surprised. While I agree with WRs that the save and the hold are essentially the identical category at different points in the game, as has been said, several pitchers in a single game can record a hold, and they're about as sporadic as can be. Past the top, maybe, 5 guys, it's incredibly unpredictible what roles different bullpen parts will go through. I've found that since I started playing in leagues that count holds, I use probably a dozen more Add/Drops than previously, trying to fill 1 or 2 setup men as necessary...

I mean, did YOU peg Zumaya to be leading the league in holds at this point in the season?? Or Coffey to be 3rd??

I enjoy using holds because you're required to utilize baseball players otherwise owned in 0% of leagues, which in turn, forces more quality starters and closers into Free Agency. It also takes skill in finding not only the pen arms who will give you hold opportunities, but ones who will help your ratios as well.

All in all, I like the hold for fantasy just as much as I do the Win or Save.


What they should do, is just rename the 'save' to 'hold' or visa versa. It would essential make all relievers the same, and might even have an added benefit. Managers would be more inclined to use their best relievers when they need them instead of making them sit for an entire week (ie Bruce Bochy's handling of Trevor Hoffman) .. :-t


I hate that as well. It ticks me off when you see a closer warming up in the pen, only to see his team score a run that makes it a non-save op., so he immediately sits down and some other schmo starts getting loose. I mean it's great to have your bullpen Ace, don't get me wrong, but sitting for several days in a row just because no save opportunity presents itself is just plain silly, in my humble opinion, of course.

I've noticed it hasn't been Trevor Time in quite some time, myself. I just hadn't realized why.
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Postby NZF » Thu May 18, 2006 4:08 am

wrveres wrote:

well then that runner wasn't inherited, it was his baserunner IE he put him on via hit or BB, and if that baserunner comes around and scores to tie the game, even if he is not on the mound anymore, he is indeed credited with a blown save.



Exactly, yet he still gets credited with a hold :-t
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Postby wrveres » Thu May 18, 2006 4:11 am

bigh0rt wrote:
I hate that as well. It ticks me off when you see a closer warming up in the pen, only to see his team score a run that makes it a non-save op., so he immediately sits down and some other schmo starts getting loose. I mean it's great to have your bullpen Ace, don't get me wrong, but sitting for several days in a row just because no save opportunity presents itself is just plain silly, in my humble opinion, of course.

I've noticed it hasn't been Trevor Time in quite some time, myself. I just hadn't realized why.


that is exactly what Bochy does .. and if a week goes by without a save, he will give him an inning. :-t
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