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Reds fire Boone, Bowden

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Postby BeautifulBrunette » Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:11 pm

I don't have much use for either Bob Boone or Jim Bowden, for all of the reasons already bandied about here. But in fairness, they were not given much support or many resources from the owner. Carl Lindner is a feeble, cheap, senile old man.

Lindner refused to spend any money on quality pitching and instead we got a daily lineup of retreads and cast-offs: Ryan Dempster (whom I like but he's damaged goods), Paul Wilson, Jimmy Haynes...oy vey, I could go on and on but I won't. I think given proper coaching (such as the A's & Braves pitchers receive), Danny Graves has good stuff and could be further developed. Graves has been handled poorly. I was furious last season, when they kept switching the kid between the bullpen and the starting rotation. Scott Williamson is a decent closer and should command some interest this week before the trading deadline hits. There are 2 young pitchers the Reds have --- Ryan Wagner and this Acevedo kid --- if handled properly (which they won't be, if they remain here) could be something special.

We Reds fans want to see a commitment to winning, something we haven't seen in about 6-7 years. I was once a Bengals fan but I gave up that punishment about 5 years ago, because the organization showed that it didn't care about winning or even competing. But I grew up a Reds fan and as we all know in this forum, baseball gets in your blood and your team is your team, for better or worse. This could be a new start for this franchise, which has such a rich history and tradition. But that tradition has been spit on the last few years and it makes me both angry and sad.
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Postby benjapage » Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:37 pm

i'm going to have to butt in here, again. money is less the issue than the selection and management of available players.

the oakland athletics always contend with very little money. they're not the only ones, and if the reds weren't so convinced of their $-victim, no-exit predicament...they might actually make some progress and work towards a championship.

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Postby BeautifulBrunette » Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:31 pm

You know, Benjapage -- excellent point. I have to agree with you on that.

However, the lack of caring about winning, the lack of putting a quality product on the field, that bothers me.
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Postby benjapage » Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:40 pm

bothers me, too. why can't the reds find roy oswalt in the 27th round (or whatever late round it was...)?

hopefully, these young'uns take root (basham, gruler, howington, wagner, et al.) and the coaches...am i allowed to bash pitching coach, don gullett? he was a great pitcher in his day, but um...reitsma should be flying. graves, too.

winning requires aggressive attention to detail. winners do it with money for the obvious producers, or they do it with trench-work for the less obvious ones. you can't slag the yankees for spending--at least, i don't--but they tend to make the "easy" selections. the twinkies, blue jays and athletics all do it in the trench.

cincinnati's a small market team--we're a tiny town--so i don't expect a lot more money to go into the team. but i do expect more thorough scouting and aggressive recruiting. the past 12 years have been abismal in almost every category (tho' this year's amateur draft was interesting!).

here's to a brighter future.

b
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Postby chaindog35 » Mon Jul 28, 2003 11:11 pm

Granted, the Reds haven't drafted guys like Roy Oswalt or a Dontrelle Willis. However, look at Jose Guillen. The reds took a guy who wasn't even drafted and have turned him into and everyday RF that hits for power. The Reds have Scott Williamson who was drafted in the 9th rd and was a rookie of the year. Reitsma who was drafted in the 300th rd. Heck, most of the guys on the team weren't drafted at all. The A's Big 3 pitchers were taken in the 1st, 1st and 7th rds. So basically, would you rather have Kearns and Dunn or Zito and Mulder. Well, the Reds didn't have as high of picks as the A's, so they end up with a solid OF rather than two SP. What is it that the A's need right now? OF. Billy Beane takes prospects from other teams and builds a solid team. Jim Bowden did the same thing on a smaller scale, getting guys like Guillen, Encarnacion and retread SP and getting at least something out of them.
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Postby Youppi » Mon Jul 28, 2003 11:17 pm

Griffey needs to go. he needs to play DH for an american league team so he wont get injured as much. maybe the new GM will trade him.
how do people think of a junior for ponson trade? possibly some prospects from orioles thrown in or take all the salary or something like that but i think that owuld help both teams greatly.
GO EXPOS
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Postby benjapage » Mon Jul 28, 2003 11:21 pm

there's an extreme overabundance of outfielders. it's easier to do what bowden did. encarnacion and guillen are fine players, but they don't win championships. pitching does.

ok, the a's need OF help. that's not exactly hard to find. they'll find it, and they'll win again. pitchers are harder to find, but year after year, they make that their priority...year after year, they win. we're not just talking zito, mulder, hudson. their farm system is (and has been) stacked with pitchers.

hopefully--as i phrased above in an earlier post--this most recent crop will provide some strength in that department. in the meantime, i'm glad to see a winner like dave miley step in to hold down the fort on the field. i'm a reds fan. i'll take what i can get.

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Postby thehat » Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:11 am

The Reds could resurrect Fred Hutchinson or lure Sparky Anderson out of retirement and still suck. The problem with this team begins at the top. They have a horsesh*t owner who knows zilch about the game. The Griffey deal was a no-brainer that didn't work out...who could have known he'd turn brittle? Problem is Lindner decided to pare the payroll following that deal, which doomed the team as it meant (and still means) there's no remedy for the obvious ailments on this team. Things will get even worse from here. They're likely to deal some talent and their insane promotion of Wagner this early in his career is a clear indication these people are clueless.
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Postby wrveres » Tue Jul 29, 2003 5:21 am

BeautifulBrunette wrote: I was once a Bengals fan but I gave up that punishment about 5 years ago, because the organization showed that it didn't care about winning or even competing.


Ouch ... :~( But hey .. it's still one step up from being a Clippers fan. :-)

It's been said here a hundred times, Cicny built up a supply of OF's in hope's of trading for Pitching. The problem, and benjapage is right, is that the market is flooded with "AVG JOE" OF. On the other hand, Pitchers are in High Demand. If You have pitching on your team right now, The next three days will be a Sellers Market . IMO.
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Postby Guest » Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:57 am

will be interesting to see if Dunn shows any improvement at the plate, now that Boone is gone and can't mess with his head or his lineup position anymore. I shed no tears for Bob Boone, the man is a lousy manager.
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