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Should Dusty Baker be fired?

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Postby EugeneStyles » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:40 pm

Wrigley is a horrible setup for the leadoff stereotype. if anyone should be fully aware of this, it is Hendry.


Cubs fans bitched and moaned for a legitimate leadoff hitter. If you can complain about the GM when he doesn't do what the fans want to fix an obvious need, you can't complain when he tries to fix an obvious need by doing exactly what the fans want. And yeah, it's too bad the Cubs got Pierre instead of spending $14M on the great Rafeal Furcal...
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The other things Cubs fans bitched and moaned about was get rid of Corey Patterson. We don't care if you get anything for him just get rid of him. So they traded away a guy who has always been a can't-miss prospect, at the low-end of his value, and got virtually nothing in return. Good job of sell-low there... Why couldn't they just move him to RF or LF, platoon with Murton if necessary, and have him hitting behind Pierre? But Cubs fans (excluding me, obviously) got exactly what they wanted on that one and now Patterson is ripping it up in Baltimore just like we knew he could.
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Postby ironman » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:13 pm

EugeneStyles wrote:
Wrigley is a horrible setup for the leadoff stereotype. if anyone should be fully aware of this, it is Hendry.


Cubs fans bitched and moaned for a legitimate leadoff hitter. If you can complain about the GM when he doesn't do what the fans want to fix an obvious need, you can't complain when he tries to fix an obvious need by doing exactly what the fans want. And yeah, it's too bad the Cubs got Pierre instead of spending $14M on the great Rafeal Furcal...
%-6

The other things Cubs fans bitched and moaned about was get rid of Corey Patterson. We don't care if you get anything for him just get rid of him. So they traded away a guy who has always been a can't-miss prospect, at the low-end of his value, and got virtually nothing in return. Good job of sell-low there... Why couldn't they just move him to RF or LF, platoon with Murton if necessary, and have him hitting behind Pierre? But Cubs fans (excluding me, obviously) got exactly what they wanted on that one and now Patterson is ripping it up in Baltimore just like we knew he could.


Patterson's plate discipline became a major liability. And it looked like it was never going to change under the Cubs coaching staff. That, coupled with the fans turning on him, which couldn't have helped his psyche and morale, pretty much guaranteed that Corey's productivity would never recover in Chicago, and thus his trade value would probably never had improved. I admit I wanted him gone too, but you can't say that if we still had him that he'd be playing like he is in Baltimore.
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Postby ThatDude » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:08 pm

EugeneStyles wrote:Cubs fans bitched and moaned for a legitimate leadoff hitter.


And we still don't have one.
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Postby EugeneStyles » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:01 am

ThatDude wrote:
EugeneStyles wrote:Cubs fans bitched and moaned for a legitimate leadoff hitter.


And we still don't have one.


Dude, Juan Pierre is the best leadoff hitter in the game. Christ! What more do you want than a .300 hitter who steals 50 bases? Why does he suck so bad this year? I'd say it's a mix between the long infield grass at Wrigley (which has supposedly been cut shorter), and Dusty Baker's incompetence as a manager. Possibly also something having to do with a goat.
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Postby ThatDude » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:27 am

EugeneStyles wrote:
ThatDude wrote:
EugeneStyles wrote:Cubs fans bitched and moaned for a legitimate leadoff hitter.


And we still don't have one.


Dude, Juan Pierre is the best leadoff hitter in the game. Christ! What more do you want than a .300 hitter who steals 50 bases? Why does he suck so bad this year? I'd say it's a mix between the long infield grass at Wrigley (which has supposedly been cut shorter), and Dusty Baker's incompetence as a manager. Possibly also something having to do with a goat.



Pierre isn't even in the top half of leadoff hitters in the majors, and it's not just that he sucks this year, he has sucked for the vast majority of his career.


I want ALOT more out of leadoff hitter than a .300 avg and a questionable success rate stealing bases. 50 SB's don't mean much of anything when you get caught 20 times.

I want a guy that has a .360+ OBP every single year and has enough power to hit himself into scoring position, rather than beat the ball into the ground, pray it finds a hole somewhere, and then risk running into an out to get himself into scoring position.
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Postby stevethumb » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:29 am

it's way past time to blow this team up and it starts at the top....goodbye to the GM...adios dusty (you should have been fired last october)..keep A_Ram, DLee, MBarrett, MMurton and please give up on kwood and mprior...trade gmaddux to the dodgers now for some OF prospect...and in keeping w/the thread title fire dusty baker then fire him again ..
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Postby ThatDude » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:33 am

stevethumb wrote:it's way past time to blow this team up and it starts at the top....goodbye to the GM...adios dusty (you should have been fired last october)..keep A_Ram, DLee, MBarrett, MMurton and please give up on kwood and mprior...trade gmaddux to the dodgers now for some OF prospect...and in keeping w/the thread title fire dusty baker then fire him again ..



Hendry (the GM) has already got his extension, and Baker's won't be too much longer in coming. That is the sad reality. As for giving on Prior, that might be the most absurd thing I've heard.

Oh, nevermind, I almost forgot that someone said Pierre was the best leadoff hitter in the game a little bit ago. That takes the cake.
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Postby stevethumb » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:36 am

the cubs will never win if every spring they plan on wood and prior starting 60 games..then they end up grusch, jwilliams, rhill, smitre etc in the rotation instead...the cubs were 16 games out last yr - 21 games out in 04 .. prior and wood have totaled 28 wins in 4 2/3 combined seasons...there should be a new stat IP/days on DL .. that would show you the true worth of those 2 to the success/demise of the cubs .. trading prior absurd ?! hardly..
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Postby ThatDude » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:06 pm

stevethumb wrote:the cubs will never win if every spring they plan on wood and prior starting 60 games..then they end up grusch, jwilliams, rhill, smitre etc in the rotation instead...the cubs were 16 games out last yr - 21 games out in 04 .. prior and wood have totaled 28 wins in 4 2/3 combined seasons...there should be a new stat IP/days on DL .. that would show you the true worth of those 2 to the success/demise of the cubs .. trading prior absurd ?! hardly..


Trading Prior is absolutely absurd. With all that injury history that you love to dwell on, his trade value is far below his actual value. Selling low is always a bad idea, and Prior still has as much upside as anyone in baseball.

This will likely be Wood's last season as a Cub, and while I would like to see him traded so we can get something in return for him, I doubt he will waive his no-trade clause and he will just end up walking after this year.



Finally, Prior and Wood aren't the problem with the Cubs of recent years. The completely pathetic offense has been the chief culprit for the past handful of years.
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Postby stevethumb » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:32 pm

prior and wood NOT a problem the last 2 years ?!?! anyone else wanna jump in ?! wood pitched 66 innings last year and because of that the cubs replaced him w/200 innings of smitre and jkoronka and grusch..that's not good...the previous year their #1 starter threw a whopping 118 IP that is a MAJOR problem...and as for prior's "actual value"..what is his "actual value" so far this year ?
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