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In case you needed more proof Scott Boras is scum

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Postby swyck » Fri May 12, 2006 2:59 pm

Secret Avatar wrote:Why is this Boras' fault? I've got no love for the guy, but he just plays the hand he is dealt. It's the TEAMS that hold the money. Its the PLAYERS that decide what to do. I can't fault Boras for playing on the greed of players and the foolishness of teams to spend gazillions on unproven players.

Harrington was an absolute idiot to turn down $4.1 million (!) regardless of what his agent (who was not Boras at the time) told him to do. 8-o

Earth to Harrington: if you're 18 years old and someone offers you $4.1 million to throw a little white ball some 60 feet to a dude in a mask, YOU TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN. ;-D

Agreed. I dont like Boras, but the teams shouldnt let him take advantage of him.

Of course telling someone not to take $1 million after their second draft was a bad call. He should put him on his own payroll for doing that.

I wonder what the Rockies did with the $4.1 mil they saved on a bum arm... :-D I think if you asked, they'd be happy with Harrington's decision.
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Postby ironman » Fri May 12, 2006 3:19 pm

I'm not saying this is all Boras' fault but to say he shouldn't have any fault is a bit naive.
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Postby Yoda » Fri May 12, 2006 3:21 pm

ironman wrote:I'm not saying this is all Boras' fault but to say he shouldn't have any fault is a bit naive.


Why is it Boras' fault? Please explain.
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Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Fri May 12, 2006 6:20 pm

Look, I hate Boras for what he's done to the draft, etc. But, at the end of the day, the player makes the final decision. Boras is just an ADVISOR - the player makes the final call. If Boras tells him he should hold out for more, fine. But the player makes that call.

Honestly, I laugh at Harrington. Could have been virtually set for life. Now, good luck ever seeing a million total. Likely won't happen to Hochevar, but will think it is funny if it does. I'm sorry, 99+% of people will never see $3M - and we all know that if he's as good as advertised, he'll make 10 times that.

But, if it does, he'll have no one to blame but himself since he'll be making the final call, not Boras.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Fri May 12, 2006 10:46 pm

Dawgpound 1613 wrote:. Boras is just an ADVISOR - .


oh please...'gosh, I just graduated from high school but I'M CALLING THE SHOTS HERE!' LOL... :-t
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Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Sat May 13, 2006 10:38 am

AcidRock23 wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:. Boras is just an ADVISOR - .


oh please...'gosh, I just graduated from high school but I'M CALLING THE SHOTS HERE!' LOL... :-t


OMG - these kids don't have PARENTS!!! And they can't drive! And they can't vote! And they can't fight in wars!

Please. Their life - they take responsibility for it. And if they can't do so, then their parent(s) needs to be involved. At the end of the day, Boras is not holding a gun to their heads telling them to turn down $4.1M or $2.98M. Boras as an "advisor" has no legal authority whatsoever in the decision. To blame him when it goes bad is stupid.

:-t
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Postby AcidRock23 » Sat May 13, 2006 11:26 am

Dawgpound 1613 wrote:
AcidRock23 wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:. Boras is just an ADVISOR - .


oh please...'gosh, I just graduated from high school but I'M CALLING THE SHOTS HERE!' LOL... :-t


OMG - these kids don't have PARENTS!!! And they can't drive! And they can't vote! And they can't fight in wars!

Please. Their life - they take responsibility for it. And if they can't do so, then their parent(s) needs to be involved. At the end of the day, Boras is not holding a gun to their heads telling them to turn down $4.1M or $2.98M. Boras as an "advisor" has no legal authority whatsoever in the decision. To blame him when it goes bad is stupid.

:-t


We don't see what the deal was between say Boras and Hamilton but I would imagine that it likely has some language prohibiting a player from negotiating on his own behalf and screwing up what Boras would be trying to cajole out of a team.

Perhaps Hamilton just didn't have an MLB caliber arm whatever his pre-pro numbers might have suggested (since TINSTAAPP...) but 4.1 million would seem to be a reasonable offer and, since the team was able to have a player valued 'correctly' (or even overvalued, in light of how he's panned out...) and did not toss more and more money after him (and neither did anybody else really...) the player ends up wasting whatever potential he may have had.

Maybe his subsequent performance has been influenced by the mental side of things, having been a 'hot prospect' and now kind of a middling minor leaguer. Still, he got an offer for 4.1 million and then a reasonable offer in light of apparently declining value for 1 million and both were turned down.

I think that some sort of performance based value system, instead of having agents pimping the last 3 years of stats, would be better. A flat fee if you get signed and reasonable 'bonuses' for achieving different levels of performance. There'd be anomalies in that type of system as well but given the vast amounts of data floating around, I have to think that there'd be a way to figure that out so that it would work to everyone's advantage.
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Postby Matthias » Sat May 13, 2006 11:45 am

Dawgpound 1613 wrote:
AcidRock23 wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:. Boras is just an ADVISOR - .


oh please...'gosh, I just graduated from high school but I'M CALLING THE SHOTS HERE!' LOL... :-t


OMG - these kids don't have PARENTS!!! And they can't drive! And they can't vote! And they can't fight in wars!

Please. Their life - they take responsibility for it. And if they can't do so, then their parent(s) needs to be involved. At the end of the day, Boras is not holding a gun to their heads telling them to turn down $4.1M or $2.98M. Boras as an "advisor" has no legal authority whatsoever in the decision. To blame him when it goes bad is stupid.

:-t


No. To put it all on the player is stupid.

All the time we put ourselves under the care and guidance of others who have more expertise than we do: which is precisely the reason we hire them, even those of us past the tender age of 18.

You don't hire an accountant to do your taxes and then just ignore it and fill out the 1040 with no deductions.

You don't hire a doctor to check out the growth on your toe just so that you can come up with your own medical treatment.

And you don't hire Scott Boras out of high school to structure your own deal negotiation.

Ultimately, in all of these situations, these people are advisors who explain the situation to you and you make the final call. But you hire them to render their opinion in a matter that you don't know anything about. So to just cavalierly say that you made the decision... well, that's more than a little naive.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Sat May 13, 2006 12:09 pm

Matthias wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:
AcidRock23 wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:. Boras is just an ADVISOR - .


oh please...'gosh, I just graduated from high school but I'M CALLING THE SHOTS HERE!' LOL... :-t


OMG - these kids don't have PARENTS!!! And they can't drive! And they can't vote! And they can't fight in wars!

Please. Their life - they take responsibility for it. And if they can't do so, then their parent(s) needs to be involved. At the end of the day, Boras is not holding a gun to their heads telling them to turn down $4.1M or $2.98M. Boras as an "advisor" has no legal authority whatsoever in the decision. To blame him when it goes bad is stupid.

:-t


No. To put it all on the player is stupid.

All the time we put ourselves under the care and guidance of others who have more expertise than we do: which is precisely the reason we hire them, even those of us past the tender age of 18.

You don't hire an accountant to do your taxes and then just ignore it and fill out the 1040 with no deductions.

You don't hire a doctor to check out the growth on your toe just so that you can come up with your own medical treatment.

And you don't hire Scott Boras out of high school to structure your own deal negotiation.

Ultimately, in all of these situations, these people are advisors who explain the situation to you and you make the final call. But you hire them to render their opinion in a matter that you don't know anything about. So to just cavalierly say that you made the decision... well, that's more than a little naive.


I think that the smart play would be to see what you can get on your own or w/ a lower tier agent and then make your decision, jeez do a few weeks of reasearch and value yourself. Look what people do around here before the baseball season starts to value FANTASY players...hee hee...
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Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Sat May 13, 2006 12:52 pm

Matthias wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:
AcidRock23 wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:. Boras is just an ADVISOR - .


oh please...'gosh, I just graduated from high school but I'M CALLING THE SHOTS HERE!' LOL... :-t


OMG - these kids don't have PARENTS!!! And they can't drive! And they can't vote! And they can't fight in wars!

Please. Their life - they take responsibility for it. And if they can't do so, then their parent(s) needs to be involved. At the end of the day, Boras is not holding a gun to their heads telling them to turn down $4.1M or $2.98M. Boras as an "advisor" has no legal authority whatsoever in the decision. To blame him when it goes bad is stupid.

:-t


No. To put it all on the player is stupid.

All the time we put ourselves under the care and guidance of others who have more expertise than we do: which is precisely the reason we hire them, even those of us past the tender age of 18.

You don't hire an accountant to do your taxes and then just ignore it and fill out the 1040 with no deductions.

You don't hire a doctor to check out the growth on your toe just so that you can come up with your own medical treatment.

And you don't hire Scott Boras out of high school to structure your own deal negotiation.

Ultimately, in all of these situations, these people are advisors who explain the situation to you and you make the final call. But you hire them to render their opinion in a matter that you don't know anything about. So to just cavalierly say that you made the decision... well, that's more than a little naive.


I'm sorry, but when did personal responsibility go out the window?

First off, we're talking about a CONTRACT, which requires no professional expertise to enter. The law states that anyone over the age of 18 has the legal right to enter into a contract and MUST abide by the terms.

People the age of 18 do NOT automatically get the right to give medical opinions, give legal opinions, be a licensed CPA, etc. To do so, they must pass exams, have the required schooling, etc. None of that is required for entering into a contract, so the situations here are SLIGHTLY different in terms of scope than a player signing a professional services contract.

Second, at the end of the day, the person seeking those opinions bears the ultimate responsibility for their actions. If the doctor tells them to ignore the growth, and they do, the doctor's toe doesn't fall off. If you blindly follow the accountant's advice and file your tax return, the IRS doesn't seek out the accountant, the IRS comes after you. As such, if you don't think that professional is giving you the right "advice", it is your responsibility to get a second opinion. If you'll notice, MANY athletes get them, especially in medical situations. What is being "naive" is to presume that no "advisor" ever makes mistakes and blindly follow their advice.

Now, you may have a cause of action against the "advisor" IF the advice was negligent, but that's something you will have to prove - it isn't automatic. Also, you only have that right because you've entered into a legal relationship with that advisor. Here, there is no contract between the player and Boras b/c to do so would make the player a pro and would force the player to give up playing. As such, Boras is not an AGENT, but an ADVISOR. There are different legal standards between those two relationships, the least of which is that Harrington and/or Hochevar still retained the ability to go to college - a very powerful negotiating position that players rarely give up. And as Harrington has never sued Boras (and based on getting nothing vs. $4.1M, I'd think he'd have a decent cause of action IF there was a legal relationship between them), this just provides additional evidence that Boras had no legal right to force Harrington to reject the offer.

End of the day, Boras gives his advice. You can follow it. You can ignore it. But he can't legally force you to follow it. This is not a situation that requires professional expertise to understand (e.g. medicine or accounting), this is a simple contract. As an 18 y.o., you have the legal ability to enter the contract and make those decisions that affect your life. If you don't like the advice, get a parent involved or get a second opinion. But if you blindly follow the advice, and it turns out badly, you have no one to blame but yourself. It's called personal responsibility.
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