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Postby jlm53089 » Sun May 07, 2006 10:11 pm

I hate philly but thats funny as hell
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Postby sappisgod » Sun May 07, 2006 10:13 pm

Booing, chants, and signs. Thats their best behavior by some Philly fans standards. I'm still disgusted about what I heard about them yelling at Joe Jurevicius. They can make a creative sing about a guy who most likely cheated I don't care, it's a lot better than some scum there do.
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Postby TheOmen » Sun May 07, 2006 10:35 pm

What are the horrible incidents that happened in KC? I'm not calling the Bonds booing in Phillie a horrible incident, but I can't recall anything that has happened in KC that even approaches cheering Michael Irvin when he is injured, booing Mike Schmidt for playing below HoF level, booing the hometown Kobe Bryant at an All-Star Game, throwing batteries at any player, or needing a courthouse inside a stadium to handle all the problems that happen.


Michael Irvin got booed. And that happened, but does not make it any different than when Eric Lindros got cheered on Long Island after he got knocked out. He got up, and he was booed. This sh*t happens everywhere, that's all I'm saying. Kobe Bryant said he was going to rip our hearts out. What did you expect? I've been to hundreds of Philly sports events, and rarely has it been what's described on the national level. Of course there are instnaces, but come on, you would think it was mob rules if you watched sportscenter.

Cleveland Browns fans threw the beer bottles at the players, and the KC coach was jumped at Comiskey. The Oakland A's fans got in a fight with a Rangers player. The Red Sox and Yankees fans got in a fight in the bullpen...all of these happened very recently. And it happens every year, at every park. Just read this to see what I mean. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2004-11-20-sports-incidents_x.htm
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Postby nuggets » Mon May 08, 2006 12:23 am

Zito is God wrote:
Matthias wrote:
cloverhurstdawg wrote:Bonds could silence all this talk about steroids if he just submitted to drug tests. He's not a member of the union, there's no one stopping him from doing it except himself.


Testing or no, it's beyond question that Bonds juiced with something. The only question, really, is how people feel about that.


See, this country is based on innocent until proven guilty so you can't really say that until you move to China.


Yes lol, this is my new line :-b

Zito is God wrote:
Freedom of speech? We can do what we want.


Umm, no, you can't.

Some people don't realize what freedom of speech entitles citizens to do. If you stand outside at 3 in the morning screaming profanity you will be arrested, no freedom of speech there. There is also a something called slander, which can be a cause for legal issues, and is exactly what some fans are doing taking their "freedom of speech" to the extreme by degrading Bonds (Oh, I would love to see a trial for some lowlife who went to far with slander and got locked up). Furthermore, there are clauses made especially for obscenity, judged on an opinion basis of the Supreme Court as to what is considered an obsenity (some things shot at Bonds go well beyond the line). On top of that the threats Bonds recieved are well into the line of illegal.

So there you go, freedom of speech goes as far as to not obviously degrade other individuals. Something that many have done to Bonds.


You're right.
The guiding principal in legal issues such as this is "swing your arms freely as long as you hurt no one else". That is our freedom. If someone can show you are hurting someone else, you do not have that freedom. Yes of course it gets a million times more tech then that, but that's the basis.

Swings arms have definitely hit the Bonds family and regarless if he's a nice person or not, does not deserve to be treated this way as he is an American...who pays taxes, who entertaines you and is a Hero to some.
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Postby Hobbes » Mon May 08, 2006 11:06 pm

Many of the comments in this thread are pure hogwash. This thread wasn't about any actions that impacted his family, it was about whether the actions of the fans in Philly were classless or not. Bonds is a professional baseball player who takes gobs of money to play a game in front of fans. One of the tradeoffs for making those gobs of money is that those fans, who paid good money to see him play, have every right to let him know their opinion of him during the game. That is the deal when you are a professional ballplayer, and Bonds knew that before he ever took the job. As a matter of fact, given that he grew up around the game, he knew it better than anybody.

As far as I know, the fans in Philly didn't throw anything at Barry. They held up signs and booed him and chanted derogatory chants. None of this impinged upon his rights as a citizen, nor did they damage his family beyond any possible hurt feelings. And frankly, if they are Barry's family, they better have developed a thick skin by now.

As for steroids, he took them. You know it, I know it, the whole damn world knows it outside of a few delusional Bonds supporters. We are not talking about the burden of proof for a criminal conviction, we are talking about sufficient evidence for reasonable people to draw a conclusion. Barry Bonds did steroids. Period.

So as stated by another poster, the only question is how people choose to react to that knowledge. Some think it's no big deal, and some are tremendously bothered by it. Put me in the latter category.

Bonds has tremendous baseball ability. He has fantastic hand-eye coordination and an uncanny command of the strike zone. Neither of these things are aided by steroid use, they are his god given gifts. There is no doubt that with these skills and an unaided body he would have amassed impressive career numbers. However, he was not satisfied with that and decided to go for more via artificial augmentation.

Some choose to believe the steroid use had minimal benefit since he still had to put the bat on the ball. Not true. Steroids gave him more power, but they also gave him the explosiveness to maintain his bat speed as his body aged. Without them he might have had the same ability to see the ball, but not the same ability to get his bat to it as quickly, and production would tail off. Steroids also allowed his body to recover much more rapidly, so the aches and pains and wear and tear of the long season did not result in the reduced production that would normally occur with his aging body. Yes, Bonds would have been a good player, but the numbers he put up all have to be suspect because of his steroid use.

I'm a fan of the game and that offends me. And if I choose to hold up a sign at the stadium saying so that is my right.
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