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Postby Zito is God » Sun May 07, 2006 7:15 pm

Matthias wrote:
cloverhurstdawg wrote:Bonds could silence all this talk about steroids if he just submitted to drug tests. He's not a member of the union, there's no one stopping him from doing it except himself.


Testing or no, it's beyond question that Bonds juiced with something. The only question, really, is how people feel about that.


See, this country is based on innocent until proven guilty so you can't really say that until you move to China.
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Postby Xtreemes » Sun May 07, 2006 7:55 pm

Zito is God wrote:
Matthias wrote:
cloverhurstdawg wrote:Bonds could silence all this talk about steroids if he just submitted to drug tests. He's not a member of the union, there's no one stopping him from doing it except himself.


Testing or no, it's beyond question that Bonds juiced with something. The only question, really, is how people feel about that.


See, this country is based on innocent until proven guilty so you can't really say that until you move to China.


No, the legal system is based on innocent until proven guilty. The court of public opinion is allowed to make their own decisions based on whatever they believe. Alot of people believe Bonds juiced and they have every right to think that.
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Postby great gretzky » Sun May 07, 2006 8:04 pm

There are hundreds of steroids you can buy online: [url]steroids.com[/url], [url]domesticgear.com[/url], etc.

The thing is, GNC sells steroids, but to the untrained ete these are called "Accelaration Anabolic Formula". I have had a good amount of experience in the field of weight lifting and substance use (I take Whey Protein and Creatine myself, would take Glutamine too if I had the money), I can tell you that many stores in the US sell steroids all over. You can net them online anywhere. The US law on steroids is they don't really know, they say its kinda illegal but kinda not, if they actually made this law GNC would lose about 20% sales, so would all the other stores.

Um no, try again. The law is very clear on the types of steroids that are illegal. GNC does not in any way shape of form sell the steroids in question. The facts are that steroids are illegal without a prescription, and also illegal with prescription if used in a manner unintended. US law has some grey areas, true, but don't gloss over the facts that what he did was illegal. The problem is, steroids are a controlled substance, but the law is grey when it comes to supplements, they are regulated as a food, not a drug--which has different standards.

And yes, the court of public opinion is not held to the same standard as the court of law. Which is why the vast majority of people know that OJ did it.

You are arguing up a tree. The only thing you can really argue is that he didn't do it, AND it is ridiculous to think he did. I suspect that it is reasonable to think he did what he did. His actions were illegal, and unethical in terms of playing baseball. Even if it is legal in baseball technically, his use puts him in the class of "dirty player." We can boo him just as much as we can boo artest for being dirty, or ty cobb who sharpened spikes etc.
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Postby Zito is God » Sun May 07, 2006 8:22 pm

Ok, I'll take a quick crack at it one more time and then I'm done.

I am not saying what he did was right. I am not saying I like him. I personally believe he did it. What I'm saying is that you cannot automatically take action against a guy who is not proven guilty.

Thats one thing, heres the other thing. To take steroids is not morally wrong. Wife beating is morally wrong. I am not talking about all that "baseball world" and "to the game" crap, I'm talking about real life, baseball aside. You cannot degrade a human being for doing something that does not hurt anyone else and in no way disrupts moral sense. Seriously, I honestly cannot see how you would even argue that taking steroids and wife beating are the same thing or that shooting steroids is morally wrong. The word morally is the key, and it directly relates to consequences of your actions. Since Bond's actions were not morally wrong, the fans, at times, react to him in an immoral way in terms of degrading him and his family, threats, throwing objects at him, etc.
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Postby Zito is God » Sun May 07, 2006 8:27 pm

On top of that, after re-reading your post, I would like to add I never claimed booeing a player is not ethical. That is part of the game if you wish it to be. I was reffering to actions by the fans like threats, objects thrown at him, and some of the thngs fans can say.

I don't care about boeing, hell, I'll boo some players I don't like if I get a chance (Pedro comes to mind first), I was talking about actions that make the person gfeel sub-human, and some fans have really taken those actions to the extreme.
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Postby jzfran » Sun May 07, 2006 8:54 pm

I have no problem with fans being creative and hollering at/booing players, as long as theres no physical contact. Freedom of speech? We can do what we want. I hate Bonds, as I think he's a dirty cheater who is incredibly ungrateful and doesnt care about anyone but himself. I will be very angry if/when he breaks the HR record. So Phillies fans and the rest of the NL: keep up the good work and show him that hitting these HR the wrong way is not a good thing.
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Postby Zito is God » Sun May 07, 2006 9:26 pm

Freedom of speech? We can do what we want.


Umm, no, you can't.

Some people don't realize what freedom of speech entitles citizens to do. If you stand outside at 3 in the morning screaming profanity you will be arrested, no freedom of speech there. There is also a something called slander, which can be a cause for legal issues, and is exactly what some fans are doing taking their "freedom of speech" to the extreme by degrading Bonds (Oh, I would love to see a trial for some lowlife who went to far with slander and got locked up). Furthermore, there are clauses made especially for obscenity, judged on an opinion basis of the Supreme Court as to what is considered an obsenity (some things shot at Bonds go well beyond the line). On top of that the threats Bonds recieved are well into the line of illegal.

So there you go, freedom of speech goes as far as to not obviously degrade other individuals. Something that many have done to Bonds.
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Postby wrveres » Sun May 07, 2006 9:53 pm

How bout a 'Standing O' in Philly ..

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On National TV no less.


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Postby HOOTIE » Sun May 07, 2006 9:59 pm

wrveres wrote:How bout a Standing O in Philly ..
Image ..

On National TV no less.


713 ;-7



You beat me too it. Great call WR.

It' unbelievable that some people think Bonds has dodged drug tests. Bonds has been tested from 2003 on. And he's hit hrs since then. But the haters fail to acknowledge this.
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Postby curious_george_43545 » Sun May 07, 2006 10:11 pm

HOOTIE wrote:
wrveres wrote:How bout a Standing O in Philly ..
Image ..

On National TV no less.


713 ;-7



You beat me too it. Great call WR.

It' unbelievable that some people think Bonds has dodged drug tests. Bonds has been tested from 2003 on. And he's hit hrs since then. But the haters fail to acknowledge this.


I would think you'd have to be pretty stupid to think that you could hit 713 home runs from taking steroids. 8-o
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