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Is modern-day Pujols the best hitter ever?

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Postby Havok1517 » Mon May 01, 2006 7:31 pm

I firmly believe that Cobb wouldn't be much better if any better than Ichiro if he played today. You honestly think he'd bat over .400? No! Its pointless to argue. The game is different and much harder today than it was in the early 1900's. But saying that Ichiro compared to Cobb is like David DeJesus is a Mickey Mantle when the game has evolved and improved such much since then is ignorant and just a horrible comparison especially since DeJesus has only played about 3 years! :-t
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Postby Tavish » Mon May 01, 2006 8:26 pm

Havok1517 wrote:I firmly believe that Cobb wouldn't be much better if any better than Ichiro if he played today. You honestly think he'd bat over .400? No! Its pointless to argue.


I could honestly care less what Cobb would do today. The only worthwhile way to compare players is against other players of their era. When you are preoccupied with what somebody would do in a different era it makes the debate impossible. I don't think Cobb could hit .400 in this era the same as I don't think Ichiro would be much more than an average player in the 1910s.

The game is different and much harder today than it was in the early 1900's.


Debating which era is tougher is another fruitless argument. You think the game is harder now, I completely disagree. Apples and oranges. Today's game is a homerun or strikeout derby compared to the 1910s when it was a more strategical hit em where they aint. I don't think its harder to get up there and swing with everything you got and hope to make contact. I don't think its more difficult to play with oversized equipment, travel first class airlines between cities and stay at luxury hotels and not have to worry about life's everyday expenses.

I do think that today's atheletes are stronger, faster and have better training and conditioning. But I don't think that makes the game any tougher.

But saying that Ichiro compared to Cobb is like David DeJesus is a Mickey Mantle when the game has evolved and improved such much since then is ignorant and just a horrible comparison especially since DeJesus has only played about 3 years! :-t


While I appreciate you considering my comments ignorant, the comparision is completely apt. Cobb dominated his league at level only a few players have done. Cobb, Wagner, Ruth, Williams, Bonds, Mantle, and Gehrig all have accomplished things against their peers that put them on extremely high plateau. In comparison to what they have done, Ichiro is about as dominating as David DeJesus.
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Postby Havok1517 » Mon May 01, 2006 8:37 pm

Oh my gosh, u comparing a player that has played for 3 years to a hall of famer and then saying the comparison of Cobb, who I don't disagree was great, to Ichiro, who has had monumental success in the modern era both in Japan and th US, is the same thing is undoubtably ludicrous and unfounded. Its worse than me hypothetically stating that Tom Goodwin is by far better than Delmon Young just because Delmon Young has yet to go the majors, which isn't as dumb as your comparison. :-P
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon May 01, 2006 8:39 pm

Ichiro? You guys are joking, right?
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Postby superfly » Mon May 01, 2006 8:54 pm

The Loveable Losers wrote:Best hitter would imply best overall hitter...power would be a part of the package.

If you mean best person and simply making contact with the ball for hits then Pujols STILL is better than Ichiro given a higher career batting average.


I never said anything about Ichiro. I said Gwynn and Ted Williams.
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Postby Havok1517 » Mon May 01, 2006 8:56 pm

Actually, I was the 1st to mention Williams because he is the greatest hitter ever to live. I was discounting Ichiro & Cobb from being in the running with Williams.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Mon May 01, 2006 9:00 pm

teddy ballgame wrote:There were 3 times in his career he was in his possible last at bat (before leaving for WWII, Korea, and then before he retired). He hit a home run in all 3..


teddy ballgame wrote:Then there's the story about the doubleheader on the last day of the year when his average would have been rounded up to .400 if he sat out. Playing could cost him the chance at .400. He plays both games and brings it up to .406..


teddy ballgame wrote:I read his biography last year and everything he did just amazes me. After coming back from war he took bp, first time in months. He misses the first 3 and then hits 6 straight HR's..


Those and his HOF speech and the longevity of his career and coming back all amaze me about the Splinter. I read the same bio last year and do agree that he was a stud.

At the same time, he did not face RP regularly and I kind of mark him down below Pujols just a whiff b/c everything I've read about Pujols suggests that he is also a force leading the team in the clubhouse AND a community treasure for St. Louis, neither of which Ted managed to pull off. Up to a couple of years ago, I would have picked Williams too but Big Al has won me over. Even though he plays for the WRONG TEAM!!! :~( :~( :~( :-D
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Postby Tavish » Mon May 01, 2006 9:17 pm

Havok1517 wrote:Oh my gosh, u comparing a player that has played for 3 years to a hall of famer and then saying the comparison of Cobb, who I don't disagree was great, to Ichiro, who has had monumental success in the modern era both in Japan and th US, is the same thing is undoubtably ludicrous and unfounded. Its worse than me hypothetically stating that Tom Goodwin is by far better than Delmon Young just because Delmon Young has yet to go the majors, which isn't as dumb as your comparison. :-P


I think we are on completely different spectrums when it comes to the concept of what "monumental success" is. Ichiro was much more successful in Japan, he is simply above average in the MLB. He isn't superb, he isn't dominating, he isn't legendary.

If it makes you feel better and lets you sleep at night use this comparison. Ichiro is to Cobb what John Olerud is to Lou Gehrig.
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Postby Havok1517 » Mon May 01, 2006 9:24 pm

Whatever, Ted Williams is the greatest hitter ever anyways. Better than both Cobb & Ichiro. Later!
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Postby Yoda » Mon May 01, 2006 11:31 pm

Best hitter so far has been Bonds in any given season:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leade ... ason.shtml
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