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MERGED: Delmon Young

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Postby Madison » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:08 pm

Basically boils down to two things for me.

#1. How long is the suspension?

#2. If it's 100 games or more, can you hold him (waste the spot) until 2008? If he misses 100 games or more, I'd say his shot at starting next year in the majors is slim.
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Postby The Miner Part 2 » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:14 pm

thehat wrote:
The_Met_Threat wrote:You know what would be funny... If actually some other guy like Elijah Dukes threw the bat and Delmon Young did nothing cuz he was out of the frame, and everyone at the stadium reporting is just playing a joke. Id just have to laugh at all the people saying definite malicious intent for sure. Im just saying it would be funny, and my point is don't make assumptions before you see everything. He could have just tripped and had to throw the bat out of his hand to gain balance, or he was doing some practice swings and the bat slipped, im just saying lets wait until a video of him actually throwing it comes out, if there is one.


Let's see, he gets run for protesting a called strike, and decides to subsequently take some practice swings on the way to the showers and then trips, tossing the bat behind him in order to avoid falling down.

Pardon me for making an "assumption" here, but I'm going to assume that you've been ingesting way too many hallucinogens and need to hit a de-tox center posthaste.


:-D
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Postby The_Met_Threat » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:15 pm

Madison wrote:Basically boils down to two things for me.

#1. How long is the suspension?

#2. If it's 100 games or more, can you hold him (waste the spot) until 2008? If he misses 100 games or more, I'd say his shot at starting next year in the majors is slim.


I don't think the D-Rays are gonna actually put him back in AAA at the start of next year. He was probably gonna get called up soon if this incident were not to happen. I could see him up maybe at the beginning of 2007 if he has a good ST.
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Postby Madison » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:27 pm

The_Met_Threat wrote:
Madison wrote:Basically boils down to two things for me.

#1. How long is the suspension?

#2. If it's 100 games or more, can you hold him (waste the spot) until 2008? If he misses 100 games or more, I'd say his shot at starting next year in the majors is slim.


I don't think the D-Rays are gonna actually put him back in AAA at the start of next year. He was probably gonna get called up soon if this incident were not to happen. I could see him up maybe at the beginning of 2007 if he has a good ST.


You honestly think if he misses an entire year (basically, since the season just started), that he will be major league ready at the beginning of next season? No rust to work off or anything? I'm starting to wonder if he's your brother or something with you trying to defend his stupidity (or at least downplay it), and now he's a superhuman baseball player? Very strange. :-?
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Postby The_Met_Threat » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:31 pm

Damn you found out my secret identity, i am "MEAT HOOK". }:-)

No i just honestly think that hes major league ready now, he was major league ready at the beginning of the season. Hell still work in the offseason, play some ST and i think hell maybe make a few starts back in AAA but hell be up quick. You said "can you hold him until 2008" That would mean he wouldn't even get called up next season, you honestly believe that?
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Postby bceagles04 » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:34 pm

Sorry...I havent been keeping up with the thread...not sure if the video link was posted. If not, here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW0tuz3_Hgc
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Postby Madison » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:01 pm

The_Met_Threat wrote:Damn you found out my secret identity, i am "MEAT HOOK". }:-)

No i just honestly think that hes major league ready now, he was major league ready at the beginning of the season. Hell still work in the offseason, play some ST and i think hell maybe make a few starts back in AAA but hell be up quick. You said "can you hold him until 2008" That would mean he wouldn't even get called up next season, you honestly believe that?


What I meant by hold him until 2008 is that if he misses 100 games or more, everything projection wise gets pushed back a season.

He was supposed to come up this year, get his feet wet, learn, etc, and then produce next year (2007), and people were banking on that.

If he misses 100 games or more, he will spend some time at AAA next year to work off the rust before being called up, plus he won't produce at the numbers people were expecting, due to him not getting his feet wet this season as the plan had him doing. Some people will not want to bank on him for next year simply due to not knowing when he will be brought up, or at what level he will produce.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that a 100 game or more suspension isn't going to slow his progression down. It most certainly will.
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Postby The_Met_Threat » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:05 pm

Madison wrote:
The_Met_Threat wrote:Damn you found out my secret identity, i am "MEAT HOOK". }:-)

No i just honestly think that hes major league ready now, he was major league ready at the beginning of the season. Hell still work in the offseason, play some ST and i think hell maybe make a few starts back in AAA but hell be up quick. You said "can you hold him until 2008" That would mean he wouldn't even get called up next season, you honestly believe that?


What I meant by hold him until 2008 is that if he misses 100 games or more, everything projection wise gets pushed back a season.

He was supposed to come up this year, get his feet wet, learn, etc, and then produce next year (2007), and people were banking on that.

If he misses 100 games or more, he will spend some time at AAA next year to work off the rust before being called up, plus he won't produce at the numbers people were expecting, due to him not getting his feet wet this season as the plan had him doing. Some people will not want to bank on him for next year simply due to not knowing when he will be brought up, or at what level he will produce.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that a 100 game or more suspension isn't going to slow his progression down. It most certainly will.


Sorry thought you meant that he wouldn't get called up till 08.

Personally though i think it will be around 50 games and hell get called up in 07.
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Postby reenum » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:08 pm

Jbyrdo wrote:
Gizmo wrote:
Jbyrdo wrote:
master453 wrote:
KolbSaves wrote:
wrveres wrote:I just saw the Video ...

while it is impossible to tell if it was underhand or not, that bat was coming in pretty quik. It def. was not 'tossed', it was thrown, and that to me is assualt and battery.

I honestly think the ump should file charges.

anything less than a 100 game suspension is nuts ...

You can tell it was thrown underhanded because of the spin on the bat (ie the handle goes counterclockwise). One thing you can't tell from the video is whether he was aiming it at the ump or not.



who else could he have been aiming at? his dugout was in the OTHER direction! so he wasnt throwing the bat away. the catcher was the only one else in the vicinity, and theres no reason to think he was aiming at him.


You clearly are no lawyer. Just because a bat is thrown hard under- hand and it hits the ump doesn't mean he had criminal intent to do bodily harm to the ump. It is quite possible that he just turned around and let go of the bat and it flung and hit the ump. (The best prospect in baseball is most likely pretty strong, hence the bat going fast)

Someone trying to assault an umpire with a bat isn't going to underhand throw it at him.


Hey if you bring up lawyer chat you better get the law right. Whether Delmon assaulted or even battered the Ump for that matter doesn't depend on whether he tossed the bat underhand or not.

If you toss a bat underhand with the intent to hit or cause another to fear being hit, that is assault.

It pisses me off when lay people trying act smart and put someone else down misquote the law.


I'm not a lawyer, all I am saying is that it is only assualt if he tried to injure the ump. Now most will argue that by tossing a bat at someone they are trying to hurt them.

I think whether or not he tossed the bat underhand or hit him over the head shows intent. Watching the video it isn't completely positive to me that he had criminal intent to injure. By tossing the bat underhand, I was trying to say that it makes it seem less likely he was trying to hurt the ump.

That's just my opinion, and I think that if someone does have the intent to injure someone else, they aren't going to underhand fling a bat at someone. Maybe I'm wrong and Delmon was trying to kill the guy, I'm not sure what his motives were.


I'm a lawyer, and the common law definition of assault is roughly as follows: When you act in a way that causes apprehension of imminent harm in the other person. So, there are two prongs to this:

1. Delmon had to intend to throw the bat at the umpire and thus hurt or intimidate him.
2. The umpire had to be aware of Delmon's actions, and fear for his safety.

So, there's probably no assault, especially since the ump was turned around. Whether the ump heard the bat is something I don't know.

Delmon could be liable for battery, which is the offensive touching of another. There's no intent requirement for battery as there is in assault.

I'm pretty sure the above are the general rules in all 50 states, so no assault unless the ump knew the bat was coming. But, battery is definitely something that occurred.

IMO, he should be suspended for the remainder of the season and fined heavily. This sort of conduct is simply not to be tolerated at any level.
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Postby Big Game JLo » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:13 pm

I have him in my farm system and haven't had even one inclination to drop him.
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