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Might wanna take a good hard look at Foulke.

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Postby orakana » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:08 pm

Yoda wrote:To say with conviction that Foulke will not regain his role is pretty ballsy. Would it really surprise anyone if Tito regains confidence in Foulke and starts using him more and more in pressure situations?


Ok I admit I did go a little far with the broken arm apocolypse but he has to show me more before I start to think about him as a viable player again.
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Postby Yoda » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:12 pm

orakana wrote:
Yoda wrote:To say with conviction that Foulke will not regain his role is pretty ballsy. Would it really surprise anyone if Tito regains confidence in Foulke and starts using him more and more in pressure situations?


Ok I admit I did go a little far with the broken arm apocolypse but he has to show me more before I start to think about him as a viable player again.


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/581 ... 1SYAOFCLcF

The homer he gave up should have been caught near the low wall in right field.

The loss on Friday was not a run he gave up. He walked Glaus which was really strike 3 but the ump blew the call. Seanez gave up the double which resulted in the final run.

His velocity is still fluctuating but he's mixing in a lot more breaking balls than I've seen him throw in the past. He hasn't pitched badly at all.
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Postby Pokey » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:16 pm

elbow macarni wrote:The cognitive dissonance here is pretty astounding. Papelbon has not allowed a run...Tito has said he's not taking him out of the bullpen...Wells gets hurt and they call on Dinardo (i.e. NOT Papelbon) to start...Foulke has not been allowed to pitch a single save opportunity this season...Timlin is clearly the #2 guy, with Foulke pitching the 7th inning or at the end of washouts...Foulke's knee is still hurting, two surgeries and a handful of injections later...

...and yet, some people are still clinging to the scenario that Foulke is just on the verge of regaining the closer's role.

Look, for all I know, Papelbon could fall apart tomorrow and never register another out, and Foulke could regain (for more than 7 days) the form he had two years ago (forgetting altogether that he was horrendous when he wasn't hurt last year)...but isn't there a point when you have to just swallow the facts and admit to yourself that the boat has probably sailed?


Everything you say is valid. However, this situation is special in that the Sox want to give Foulke every chance in the world to win his job back, so that they can continue to develop Papelbon as a starter. Obviously, if Foulke can't get it together, they'll be more than happy to trot out their 0.00 ERA closer every ninth inning, but if Foulke shows signs of being his former self (which he has lately) I don't think they will hesitate to put him back in the closer's roll.
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Postby orakana » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:22 pm

Yoda wrote:
orakana wrote:
Yoda wrote:To say with conviction that Foulke will not regain his role is pretty ballsy. Would it really surprise anyone if Tito regains confidence in Foulke and starts using him more and more in pressure situations?


Ok I admit I did go a little far with the broken arm apocolypse but he has to show me more before I start to think about him as a viable player again.


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/581 ... 1SYAOFCLcF

The homer he gave up should have been caught near the low wall in right field.

The loss on Friday was not a run he gave up. He walked Glaus which was really strike 3 but the ump blew the call. Seanez gave up the double which resulted in the final run.

His velocity is still fluctuating but he's mixing in a lot more breaking balls than I've seen him throw in the past. He hasn't pitched badly at all.


Yea, that game against the jays wasn't his fault completey. Foulke almost is reminding me of Wickman, you really don't know what you're gonna get each time out there but somehow manages to get through the inning. Its possible that he could work it out and get back to closer role eventually.

I think it may be that the sox are going to ease him back, of course with pap doing so well that makes it easy, and maybe next year put him back into the closer role with a year to recover from everything. That's a possibility, almost like an extended rehab assignment or a year off after tommy john.

I just can't get excited about his prospects for this season.
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Postby Dark Knight » Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:09 pm

The fact is right now is that Boston needs Paps in the bullpen worse than they do in their starting lineup. After Paps,Foulke and Timlin, Boston has a shaky bullpen. With these 3 guys in the pen, Boston is set. Remove one of them for the starting rotation, and Boston is in trouble. Francona is not a dumb manager, and he knows his bullpen is set with Paps in the closer role.
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Postby acsguitar » Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:54 pm

Yoda wrote:To say with conviction that Foulke will not regain his role is pretty ballsy. Would it really surprise anyone if Tito regains confidence in Foulke and starts using him more and more in pressure situations?


It would surprise me
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Postby jayman » Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:59 pm

Dark Knight wrote:The fact is right now is that Boston needs Paps in the bullpen worse than they do in their starting lineup. After Paps,Foulke and Timlin, Boston has a shaky bullpen. With these 3 guys in the pen, Boston is set. Remove one of them for the starting rotation, and Boston is in trouble. Francona is not a dumb manager, and he knows his bullpen is set with Paps in the closer role.



I agree. I think Paps stays where he is as long as the starting pitching doesn't become so bad that the bullpen is overworked. Having a good closer is meaningless unless you can use him.
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Postby jbones733 » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:34 pm

if it aint brokw dont fix it, if Pap continues to dominate, i dont see why they wouldnt keep him as the closer, i cant see threm switching to Hansen in August in the heat of a pennant race, FOulke would be the guy more likely if it was to happen
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Postby Blakas » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:55 pm

Fellas, let's not forget that Papelbon is a young pitcher whose confidence and results this year could have great effect on his future.

I strongly doubt Boston would throw him back into the rotation right from the stopper role.

At the very least, they would give him a few weeks at long relief. Or, SMARTER MOVE, let him keep his job this year and then enter next year as a starter.
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Postby Dice » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:14 am

There is another option here folks.

If both Foulke and Papelbon continue to pitch well, and if Hansen is ready to come up this year to join the bullpen, couldn't the Red Sox deal Foulke to a contending team that needs a closer for a starting pitcher to fill that hole? That wouldn't be even half as shocking as the original Nomar trade was.

That's why this situation is so interesting. The Sox have options, needs, and flexibility, with short term and long term ramifications. And Epstein is very creative and not afraid to do things differently.

BTW, I have to revise my earlier statement that Foulke was the third best reliever on the Red Sox at the moment. After looking at the stats more it's clear that he's pitching much better than Timlin. His WHIP is half of Timlin's, and the K/BB ratio is 10:2 rather than Timlin's 4:4. Timlin's ERA is lower at the moment, but he's been letting inherited runners score at will for two years now, and Foulke has had a few bad breaks like Peña fumbling a ball for a HR.
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