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What if... Soriano is simply a stud???

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Postby GSes » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:28 pm

haha gses grammar! u gotta be able to laugh at urself sometimes, that was funny. whether or not we agree on soriano that was good stuff nuggests ;-D
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Postby NikkiSixx » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:56 pm

Nuggets - When I responded to Ender's post with "that was pretty stupid" I was talking about the part where he said "he is probably lying and is even older than that." I should have clarified that is what I was talking about. I dont even know if those were his exact words but that is what I was talking about. Also that was at a time where I still believe Soriano was 27 or 28 years old, so shame on me.


LOL, finally somebody noticed the whole kick me in the nuts deal, I thought it was pretty funny myself. I knos cords in person (he is my best friend actually). That is why I can make a deal like that (none of us would follow through with it of course), and that is why you see us arguing in a lot of the same threads.


cords said this

"I really think this says it all:

- 3 straight years of statistical decline
- Moving from the AL to NL
- Playing in a pitchers park
- Poor lineup protection "

I argued my case on the statistical decline, I was arguing the fact that its false informationg, he had a lot of improvements last year over 2004.

Also, as far as fantasy baseball goes, I put Soriano right in the same category I do Miguel Cabrera, who also plays in an extreme pitchers park and has poor lineup protection. Cabrera will hit for a higher average, Soriano wills swipe more bags, it evens out in a sense.


Yes, Alfonso Soriano is 30 years old, I thought he was younger, I was wrong. 30 is still not old in baseball terms by any means though. He has as much in the tank now that he has ever had before.



I think Alfonso Soriano will prove quite a few of you wrong, those of you who think he is in for a down year will definately be surprised by the seasons end.
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Postby SeovyeQuirsefron » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:14 am

nuggets wrote:[Great so now those who live in happy Soriano land think pitchers quality doesn't effect hitters production...I'm a fricken halucinating or what? There was no worm in the bottle , I swear!




Apparently this "nuggets" dude is some kind of a legend around this board. But so far as I can see so far, a large part of his argument repertoire is poorly executed attempts to misrepresent other's arguments. I think that's called a Straw Man in formal logic.

Here's the latest example:

I point out that Rangers hitters suffer from playing in the long, hot Texas summers. Nuggets counters with the completely irrelevant argument that pitchers suffer more than hitters. I explain to him that pitchers are not at issue. He responds as above quoted.

Silly nuggets. One hot day isn't going to hurt a pitcher much. And in any case that's what relievers are for. It's the Rangers pitchers who suffer from the long, hot Texas summers, not the opposition pitchers. And last time I checked you bat against pitchers from the other team.
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Postby nuggets » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:29 am

SeovyeQuirsefron wrote:
nuggets wrote:[Great so now those who live in happy Soriano land think pitchers quality doesn't effect hitters production...I'm a fricken halucinating or what? There was no worm in the bottle , I swear!




Apparently this "nuggets" dude is some kind of a legend around this board. But so far as I can see so far, a large part of his argument repertoire is poorly executed attempts to misrepresent other's arguments. I think that's called a Straw Man in formal logic.

Here's the latest example:

I point out that Rangers hitters suffer from playing in the long, hot Texas summers. Nuggets counters with the completely irrelevant argument that pitchers suffer more than hitters. I explain to him that pitchers are not at issue. He responds as above quoted.

Silly nuggets. One hot day isn't going to hurt a pitcher much. And in any case that's what relievers are for. It's the Rangers pitchers who suffer from the long, hot Texas summers, not the opposition pitchers. And last time I checked you bat against pitchers from the other team.


You got me now buddy...it took a 1/4 bottle of tekillya and a few beers, but you got me...the rangers do not bat against their own pitchers :-b

one thing though, the ball flies further in hotter and the hotter air has less resistance to create movement for the pitchers....

side note: I might assume some pitcheres who are used to colder temps to be effected more than the average guy who lives in them....case by case basis...
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Postby HOOTIE » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:57 am

SeovyeQuirsefron wrote:I point out that Rangers hitters suffer from playing in the long, hot Texas summers. Nuggets counters with the completely irrelevant argument that pitchers suffer more than hitters.


It doesn't show, and i don't buy it.
Texas scored 469 runs at home last year, versus 396 on the COOLER road.

Texas ranked 3rd in runs at home, even beating Colorado at Coors.
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Postby ukrneal » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:11 am

I was going to respond, but I don't think either side really cares any more, so I'll jsut let this lie.

Why not have a group bet? If he hits over .259 say, one side wins. If he doesn't the other side wins. I'd take that bet personally. Oh, and can we forget about the kicking in the nuts thing - something less....visual. :)
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Postby HOOTIE » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:32 am

ukrneal wrote:I was going to respond, but I don't think either side really cares any more, so I'll jsut let this lie.

Why not have a group bet? If he hits over .259 say, one side wins. If he doesn't the other side wins. I'd take that bet personally. Oh, and can we forget about the kicking in the nuts thing - something less....visual. :)


What the exact BA Soriano ends up with is a guess to some degree, and luck (hit rate%). What seems to be fact however is, RFK is a terrible hitters park, and this will hurt Soriano. Soriano also has been in a decline mode now. If Soriano hits 270, it won't prove anything. Some are saying he's as good as ever, meaning he can hit 300, score 100, drive in 100, and hit 40 hrs. I will take that bet.
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Postby Los_Dodgers » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:51 am

I think that people were underrating Soriano, but he isnt gonna have the ridiculous year some people think he will. I think he'll hit about 280 with 30 hrs, 30 sbs and 80 rbi's. Don't get me wrong, those are incredible numbers that I wouldn't mind having on my team, of course, but I really doubt that he will manage to have the same type of year as he did last year. Soon enough, the huge ballpark he's playing in and the bad players around him will start playing like bad players.
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Postby Phatferd » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:55 am

nuggets wrote:
Phatferd wrote:
SeovyeQuirsefron wrote:
Phatferd wrote:I love when new people show and start debating with the likes of Nuggest and GTWMA. They have no idea what they are getting themselves into.


So far, Nuggets is losing with his lame attempts to try to apply my arguments to situations that clearly don't fit. (eg. Cabrera)

Just because Nuggets can spew out a bunch of stats doesn't make him right.

Just ask yourself this:

If the National had Soriano plus three hitters better than him -- as has been argued -- wouldn't their lineup be awesome?


I was the new person once (to my credit, nuggest was too and it was over SBs) and I still think I am right, but I don't think he is wrong either. Old thread, but who cares, the point is he has defended his position and I would say better than you have.

One of the main flaws in one of your argumesnts, which was refuted by nuggets well, is the whole weather/heat thing in Texas. The heat obviously effects pitchers more than hitters and "math" proves this to be true.


Ahh, old times :-D

I actually don't remembe the exact thread, can you remind me, I like to look at the dumb crap I've said/though in the past :-D


It was basically an argument over giving up outs by moving runners over. I argued that there are times when giving up an out helps and you said giving up an out always hurts your team (If I remember 100% correctly). It got into name calling, but it was a good debate.

When I first got here I hated all these odd stats and the "moneyball" mentality. I hate saying the term "moneyball" because that isn't what the Bill James of the world are. Anyways, my point is the longer I am here the more I agree with using some of these obscure stats in determining a player's value.
You have no frame of reference, Donny. You're like a child who walks into the middle of a movie...
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Postby cordscords » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:29 pm

Soriano just hit a ball 375 ft to left field for an out.

Power #'s wont be affected my you know what!
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