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What if... Soriano is simply a stud???

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Postby cordscords » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:24 pm

NikkiSixx wrote:
cordscords wrote:1. Soriano absolutely sucks at defense. Over the last 5 seasons, he leads the ML in errors at 2B with 105. Far and away leading the pack, with the closest 2B hovering around 60.

2. Soriano is a free swinger, and cant walk if his life depended on it.

3. Every single sign point to a decline.

And some GM is going to hand him a big fat paycheck. I guarantee it will end up being a terrible signing.


He is OF now, correct?

He still produces the offense every year, 100 runs, 30, HR's, 100 RBI's (maybe not 100 RBI's this year, but in the right setting he could definately do it).

Every single sign is pointing to a decline? AS A REAL BASEBALL PLAYER (not the ballpark or the lineup protection), where is he pointing to a decline? is it the 30/30 thats scaring you off? maybe its the run production, I hate guys that produce too. Is it the good start he is off too? Is that one of the "every single sign pointing to a decline"? Or is it just the BA he had from LAST YEAR, which was .268 (.268 isnt terrible, and he is still in his prime, AND his career batting average is .281).


I think someone will pay him big bucks to play OF, you can easily get a better defensive 2B.


I highly doubt he will be playing the OF next year. Soriano has stated a million times he wants to play 2B.

And it's not the fact that he's playing in a bad park, or has bad lineup protection has no impact on his statistical decline.

Let me ask you something. If you were a major league GM and you needed a 2B, what kind of contract would you offer Soriano?
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Postby NikkiSixx » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:31 pm

cordscords wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
cordscords wrote:1. Soriano absolutely sucks at defense. Over the last 5 seasons, he leads the ML in errors at 2B with 105. Far and away leading the pack, with the closest 2B hovering around 60.

2. Soriano is a free swinger, and cant walk if his life depended on it.

3. Every single sign point to a decline.

And some GM is going to hand him a big fat paycheck. I guarantee it will end up being a terrible signing.


He is OF now, correct?

He still produces the offense every year, 100 runs, 30, HR's, 100 RBI's (maybe not 100 RBI's this year, but in the right setting he could definately do it).

Every single sign is pointing to a decline? AS A REAL BASEBALL PLAYER (not the ballpark or the lineup protection), where is he pointing to a decline? is it the 30/30 thats scaring you off? maybe its the run production, I hate guys that produce too. Is it the good start he is off too? Is that one of the "every single sign pointing to a decline"? Or is it just the BA he had from LAST YEAR, which was .268 (.268 isnt terrible, and he is still in his prime, AND his career batting average is .281).


I think someone will pay him big bucks to play OF, you can easily get a better defensive 2B.


I highly doubt he will be playing the OF next year. Soriano has stated a million times he wants to play 2B.

And it's not the fact that he's playing in a bad park, or has bad lineup protection has no impact on his statistical decline.

Let me ask you something. If you were a major league GM and you needed a 2B, what kind of contract would you offer Soriano?


I would make an offer to Soriano to DH/play OF, Im not disagreeing on the terrible defense part, his glove could get much better. I am simply stating that he is an offensive powerhouse.


What statistical decline? and if you say batting average, than I might agree with whats his name on Carlos Beltran, but only for the batting average part.

I fully expect his batting average to be right around his career average this year.


So the contract to play 2B depends on how the rest of my hitting staff looks, if I need a hitter than I say a multi year contract worth about 7 million a year, if I dont need help on offense, I would say 5 million a year.
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Postby cordscords » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:37 pm

NikkiSixx wrote:
cordscords wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
cordscords wrote:1. Soriano absolutely sucks at defense. Over the last 5 seasons, he leads the ML in errors at 2B with 105. Far and away leading the pack, with the closest 2B hovering around 60.

2. Soriano is a free swinger, and cant walk if his life depended on it.

3. Every single sign point to a decline.

And some GM is going to hand him a big fat paycheck. I guarantee it will end up being a terrible signing.


He is OF now, correct?

He still produces the offense every year, 100 runs, 30, HR's, 100 RBI's (maybe not 100 RBI's this year, but in the right setting he could definately do it).

Every single sign is pointing to a decline? AS A REAL BASEBALL PLAYER (not the ballpark or the lineup protection), where is he pointing to a decline? is it the 30/30 thats scaring you off? maybe its the run production, I hate guys that produce too. Is it the good start he is off too? Is that one of the "every single sign pointing to a decline"? Or is it just the BA he had from LAST YEAR, which was .268 (.268 isnt terrible, and he is still in his prime, AND his career batting average is .281).


I think someone will pay him big bucks to play OF, you can easily get a better defensive 2B.


I highly doubt he will be playing the OF next year. Soriano has stated a million times he wants to play 2B.

And it's not the fact that he's playing in a bad park, or has bad lineup protection has no impact on his statistical decline.

Let me ask you something. If you were a major league GM and you needed a 2B, what kind of contract would you offer Soriano?


I would make an offer to Soriano to DH/play OF, Im not disagreeing on the terrible defense part, his glove could get much better. I am simply stating that he is an offensive powerhouse.


What statistical decline? and if you say batting average, than I might agree with whats his name on Carlos Beltran, but only for the batting average part.

I fully expect his batting average to be right around his career average this year.


So the contract to play 2B depends on how the rest of my hitting staff looks, if I need a hitter than I say a multi year contract worth about 7 million a year, if I dont need help on offense, I would say 5 million a year.


What statisical decline? Take a look at the last 3 years buddy! As he ages, the bat speed will decline and that K/BB ratio is going to look even worse than he already is. Not something I would want locked up long term.
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Postby GSes » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:45 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:What's hysterical about GSes' tirade is that I've never said that Soriano "sux" or that Sosa was a fluke (that was another poster).

In this very thread, I said that Soriano would be #5 or 6 among 2B. That's certainly not bad, but it's not worth a #1 round pick.

http://fantasybaseballcafe.com/forums/v ... &&start=60

What's not so hysterical is GSes' failure to read carefully and/or his willingness to either flat out lie about other posters and/or his inability to read and comprehend what other's are writing.

GSes will never admit that he is wrong or that he was mistaken or that he was simply lying, and apologize. He simply doesn't have it in him.


i like how fast u turned this into me lieing, why on earth would i make up something as ludacris as u making a post and deleting it unless it happened. wutever man, im enjoying ur tirades of calling me a liar and that i am not man enough to apologise for something that happened.

why wont u just admit that u reposted ur knucledeads comment today and then quickly deleted it?
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:50 pm

NikkiSixx wrote:I would make an offer to Soriano to DH/play OF, Im not disagreeing on the terrible defense part, his glove could get much better. I am simply stating that he is an offensive powerhouse.


What statistical decline? and if you say batting average, than I might agree with whats his name on Carlos Beltran, but only for the batting average part.

I fully expect his batting average to be right around his career average this year.


So the contract to play 2B depends on how the rest of my hitting staff looks, if I need a hitter than I say a multi year contract worth about 7 million a year, if I dont need help on offense, I would say 5 million a year.


His OBP has dropped, too, and that's the single most important part of offense.

And his peak slugging percentage was .547, and now the last two years--in a better hitter's park, he's been around .485 to .512.

So, you are right. Other than the fact that his batting average, on base percentage, and slugging percentage are declining, there's no statistical decline.

And, he's not really an offensive powerhouse, because he has such a low OBP. If you look at good measures of offensive value, like VORP, RC/27 etc., Soriano ranks just a little above average for offense.

Soriano made $7.5 million last year. He's making $10 million THIS YEAR.

You are not going to get him for less than that next year.

And, at that cost, he's not worth it.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:58 pm

As soon as NL pitchers realize you do not have to throw him a strike at all. you will see his numbers dip.
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Postby HOOTIE » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:04 pm

SeovyeQuirsefron wrote:
RynMan wrote:
nuggets wrote:
SeovyeQuirsefron wrote: my #1 reason that Soriano should bat third on this team and on many other teams is that he is their best all-around hitter. Where two guys are otherwise relatively even, the faster guy should hit first.


Nick Johnson and Guillen are better hitters.


Maybe even a healthy Vidro...


In the real world Soriano blows those guys away. In the fantasy world, it's closer. Except for Vidro, which is just ridiculous.

In any case, I'd be glad to trade anybody straight up any of those guys for Soriano, even without his 2B elegibility.

Johnson has only had one year that is even close to major league starter caliber.

Vidro hasn't had a really good year since 2002.

And Guillen's best year is only about as good as Soriano's third best year. Plus Guillen is on the decline.

Pass the wacky weed.


You need to look again. Johnson and Guillen are better irl hitters then Soriano.

Johnsons best year beats Sorianos best, and Johnsons career in 470 games, beats Sorianos 810 games. Guillens best year matches Soriano, and Guillen has been better the last 2 years.

Career BRAA

Johnson 66 31 high
Soriano 60 29 high
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Postby NikkiSixx » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:12 pm

cordscords wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
cordscords wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
cordscords wrote:1. Soriano absolutely sucks at defense. Over the last 5 seasons, he leads the ML in errors at 2B with 105. Far and away leading the pack, with the closest 2B hovering around 60.

2. Soriano is a free swinger, and cant walk if his life depended on it.

3. Every single sign point to a decline.

And some GM is going to hand him a big fat paycheck. I guarantee it will end up being a terrible signing.


He is OF now, correct?

He still produces the offense every year, 100 runs, 30, HR's, 100 RBI's (maybe not 100 RBI's this year, but in the right setting he could definately do it).

Every single sign is pointing to a decline? AS A REAL BASEBALL PLAYER (not the ballpark or the lineup protection), where is he pointing to a decline? is it the 30/30 thats scaring you off? maybe its the run production, I hate guys that produce too. Is it the good start he is off too? Is that one of the "every single sign pointing to a decline"? Or is it just the BA he had from LAST YEAR, which was .268 (.268 isnt terrible, and he is still in his prime, AND his career batting average is .281).


I think someone will pay him big bucks to play OF, you can easily get a better defensive 2B.


I highly doubt he will be playing the OF next year. Soriano has stated a million times he wants to play 2B.

And it's not the fact that he's playing in a bad park, or has bad lineup protection has no impact on his statistical decline.

Let me ask you something. If you were a major league GM and you needed a 2B, what kind of contract would you offer Soriano?


I would make an offer to Soriano to DH/play OF, Im not disagreeing on the terrible defense part, his glove could get much better. I am simply stating that he is an offensive powerhouse.


What statistical decline? and if you say batting average, than I might agree with whats his name on Carlos Beltran, but only for the batting average part.

I fully expect his batting average to be right around his career average this year.


So the contract to play 2B depends on how the rest of my hitting staff looks, if I need a hitter than I say a multi year contract worth about 7 million a year, if I dont need help on offense, I would say 5 million a year.


What statisical decline? Take a look at the last 3 years buddy! As he ages, the bat speed will decline and that K/BB ratio is going to look even worse than he already is. Not something I would want locked up long term.


Him and Sheffield have the 2 quickest bats in the league, and he has lowered his average the last few years, but I definately dont see him hitting lower than .268 this year. Every other statistic the only thing I see is consistency...buddy.
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Postby cordscords » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:18 pm

NikkiSixx wrote:
cordscords wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
cordscords wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
cordscords wrote:1. Soriano absolutely sucks at defense. Over the last 5 seasons, he leads the ML in errors at 2B with 105. Far and away leading the pack, with the closest 2B hovering around 60.

2. Soriano is a free swinger, and cant walk if his life depended on it.

3. Every single sign point to a decline.

And some GM is going to hand him a big fat paycheck. I guarantee it will end up being a terrible signing.


He is OF now, correct?

He still produces the offense every year, 100 runs, 30, HR's, 100 RBI's (maybe not 100 RBI's this year, but in the right setting he could definately do it).

Every single sign is pointing to a decline? AS A REAL BASEBALL PLAYER (not the ballpark or the lineup protection), where is he pointing to a decline? is it the 30/30 thats scaring you off? maybe its the run production, I hate guys that produce too. Is it the good start he is off too? Is that one of the "every single sign pointing to a decline"? Or is it just the BA he had from LAST YEAR, which was .268 (.268 isnt terrible, and he is still in his prime, AND his career batting average is .281).


I think someone will pay him big bucks to play OF, you can easily get a better defensive 2B.


I highly doubt he will be playing the OF next year. Soriano has stated a million times he wants to play 2B.

And it's not the fact that he's playing in a bad park, or has bad lineup protection has no impact on his statistical decline.

Let me ask you something. If you were a major league GM and you needed a 2B, what kind of contract would you offer Soriano?


I would make an offer to Soriano to DH/play OF, Im not disagreeing on the terrible defense part, his glove could get much better. I am simply stating that he is an offensive powerhouse.


What statistical decline? and if you say batting average, than I might agree with whats his name on Carlos Beltran, but only for the batting average part.

I fully expect his batting average to be right around his career average this year.


So the contract to play 2B depends on how the rest of my hitting staff looks, if I need a hitter than I say a multi year contract worth about 7 million a year, if I dont need help on offense, I would say 5 million a year.


What statisical decline? Take a look at the last 3 years buddy! As he ages, the bat speed will decline and that K/BB ratio is going to look even worse than he already is. Not something I would want locked up long term.


Him and Sheffield have the 2 quickest bats in the league, and he has lowered his average the last few years, but I definately dont see him hitting lower than .268 this year. Every other statistic the only thing I see is consistency...buddy.


I see conistency too. A consistent decline.
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Postby NikkiSixx » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:22 pm

cordscords wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
cordscords wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
cordscords wrote:
NikkiSixx wrote:
cordscords wrote:1. Soriano absolutely sucks at defense. Over the last 5 seasons, he leads the ML in errors at 2B with 105. Far and away leading the pack, with the closest 2B hovering around 60.

2. Soriano is a free swinger, and cant walk if his life depended on it.

3. Every single sign point to a decline.

And some GM is going to hand him a big fat paycheck. I guarantee it will end up being a terrible signing.


He is OF now, correct?

He still produces the offense every year, 100 runs, 30, HR's, 100 RBI's (maybe not 100 RBI's this year, but in the right setting he could definately do it).

Every single sign is pointing to a decline? AS A REAL BASEBALL PLAYER (not the ballpark or the lineup protection), where is he pointing to a decline? is it the 30/30 thats scaring you off? maybe its the run production, I hate guys that produce too. Is it the good start he is off too? Is that one of the "every single sign pointing to a decline"? Or is it just the BA he had from LAST YEAR, which was .268 (.268 isnt terrible, and he is still in his prime, AND his career batting average is .281).


I think someone will pay him big bucks to play OF, you can easily get a better defensive 2B.


I highly doubt he will be playing the OF next year. Soriano has stated a million times he wants to play 2B.

And it's not the fact that he's playing in a bad park, or has bad lineup protection has no impact on his statistical decline.

Let me ask you something. If you were a major league GM and you needed a 2B, what kind of contract would you offer Soriano?


I would make an offer to Soriano to DH/play OF, Im not disagreeing on the terrible defense part, his glove could get much better. I am simply stating that he is an offensive powerhouse.


What statistical decline? and if you say batting average, than I might agree with whats his name on Carlos Beltran, but only for the batting average part.

I fully expect his batting average to be right around his career average this year.


So the contract to play 2B depends on how the rest of my hitting staff looks, if I need a hitter than I say a multi year contract worth about 7 million a year, if I dont need help on offense, I would say 5 million a year.


What statisical decline? Take a look at the last 3 years buddy! As he ages, the bat speed will decline and that K/BB ratio is going to look even worse than he already is. Not something I would want locked up long term.


Him and Sheffield have the 2 quickest bats in the league, and he has lowered his average the last few years, but I definately dont see him hitting lower than .268 this year. Every other statistic the only thing I see is consistency...buddy.


I see conistency too. A consistent decline.

well last year his HR's were up from 2004, his slugging percentage and OPS were up form 2004, his steals were up from 2004, his runs and RBI's were up from 2004.


The only thing you see is a decline in batting average, which I can promise you will go up this year, you will see what I mean at the end of the year. So lets hear something else false come out of your mouth about Soriano.
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