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Postby chadlincoln » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:47 pm

whoseyourdaddy12 wrote:
chadlincoln wrote:
Randy Watson wrote:Thanks for the profound insight from the ivory tower oh wise one. Now get back on your high horse and ride off into the sunset please.
You must be a rookie who has no clue what you're doing. You must not have any drafting skills that you have to cycle SP's because you have no clue how to draft good SP's. That's ok. Hang around the cafe a while and you'll learn. One day you'll get a clue.

P.S. Before you go off on Madison, maybe check who you're talking to rookie. On his high horse? Maybe his league involves knowledge of the game of baseball, not loopholes in your fantasy league.


What gives you, chadlincoln, the right to say that? How do you know how long hes been playing for? He could have more expierence then you. Yes, he made a dumb comment but he was insulted, so it gives you no right. You could be at the same level as him, as the only icon you have is the mock drafter thing or whatever (but same here, so we could all be on the same level)
The Constitution gives me the right to say that. ;-7 ;-7
Seriously though, my drafting icon only means I participated in a mock draft. That doesn't mean I was chosen from everyone here at the Cafe because I was the best and had great insight into fantasy baseball. What that means is that I was around in the off-season and bored and participated in a mock draft.
I don't know how long he's played. All I assume is that any manager who churns doesn't know the first thing about how to draft pitching or they wouldn't have to churn. Draft good pitching and spot start a few guys during the year. Don't use a loophole in the system. Any idiot can win 2 categories by churning. Winning by churning is like winning a 2-team league. You did it, but it's not worth anything. You haven't proven knowledge of the game by winning and sticking with your team, adding and dropping during the year based off need and what you think a guy will do, not based off of getting as many cheap IP's as possible.

Hang around the cafe and learn a few things. Then you won't have to churn pitchers because you can't draft or know nothing about SP's. My initial reaction to churning is that the owners don't have enough knowledge of the game (rookies) to draft well so they load up on quantity over quality.
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Postby whoseyourdaddy12 » Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:45 pm

chadlincoln wrote:
whoseyourdaddy12 wrote:
chadlincoln wrote:
Randy Watson wrote:Thanks for the profound insight from the ivory tower oh wise one. Now get back on your high horse and ride off into the sunset please.
You must be a rookie who has no clue what you're doing. You must not have any drafting skills that you have to cycle SP's because you have no clue how to draft good SP's. That's ok. Hang around the cafe a while and you'll learn. One day you'll get a clue.

P.S. Before you go off on Madison, maybe check who you're talking to rookie. On his high horse? Maybe his league involves knowledge of the game of baseball, not loopholes in your fantasy league.


What gives you, chadlincoln, the right to say that? How do you know how long hes been playing for? He could have more expierence then you. Yes, he made a dumb comment but he was insulted, so it gives you no right. You could be at the same level as him, as the only icon you have is the mock drafter thing or whatever (but same here, so we could all be on the same level)
The Constitution gives me the right to say that. ;-7 ;-7
Seriously though, my drafting icon only means I participated in a mock draft. That doesn't mean I was chosen from everyone here at the Cafe because I was the best and had great insight into fantasy baseball. What that means is that I was around in the off-season and bored and participated in a mock draft.
I don't know how long he's played. All I assume is that any manager who churns doesn't know the first thing about how to draft pitching or they wouldn't have to churn. Draft good pitching and spot start a few guys during the year. Don't use a loophole in the system. Any idiot can win 2 categories by churning. Winning by churning is like winning a 2-team league. You did it, but it's not worth anything. You haven't proven knowledge of the game by winning and sticking with your team, adding and dropping during the year based off need and what you think a guy will do, not based off of getting as many cheap IP's as possible.

Hang around the cafe and learn a few things. Then you won't have to churn pitchers because you can't draft or know nothing about SP's. My initial reaction to churning is that the owners don't have enough knowledge of the game (rookies) to draft well so they load up on quantity over quality.


how many people do you know that pick up 4 or 5 spot starters daily (just wondering, not trying to start an argument or anything like that)

i only do it when there is a sure bet or close enough , or if im desprate, usually i only pick up 3 - 5 starts a week, but thats because i have 3 players on the DL so i have the roster spots to do it
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Postby bigh0rt » Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:52 pm

whoseyourdaddy12 wrote:
chadlincoln wrote:
whoseyourdaddy12 wrote:
chadlincoln wrote:
Randy Watson wrote:Thanks for the profound insight from the ivory tower oh wise one. Now get back on your high horse and ride off into the sunset please.
You must be a rookie who has no clue what you're doing. You must not have any drafting skills that you have to cycle SP's because you have no clue how to draft good SP's. That's ok. Hang around the cafe a while and you'll learn. One day you'll get a clue.

P.S. Before you go off on Madison, maybe check who you're talking to rookie. On his high horse? Maybe his league involves knowledge of the game of baseball, not loopholes in your fantasy league.


What gives you, chadlincoln, the right to say that? How do you know how long hes been playing for? He could have more expierence then you. Yes, he made a dumb comment but he was insulted, so it gives you no right. You could be at the same level as him, as the only icon you have is the mock drafter thing or whatever (but same here, so we could all be on the same level)
The Constitution gives me the right to say that. ;-7 ;-7
Seriously though, my drafting icon only means I participated in a mock draft. That doesn't mean I was chosen from everyone here at the Cafe because I was the best and had great insight into fantasy baseball. What that means is that I was around in the off-season and bored and participated in a mock draft.
I don't know how long he's played. All I assume is that any manager who churns doesn't know the first thing about how to draft pitching or they wouldn't have to churn. Draft good pitching and spot start a few guys during the year. Don't use a loophole in the system. Any idiot can win 2 categories by churning. Winning by churning is like winning a 2-team league. You did it, but it's not worth anything. You haven't proven knowledge of the game by winning and sticking with your team, adding and dropping during the year based off need and what you think a guy will do, not based off of getting as many cheap IP's as possible.

Hang around the cafe and learn a few things. Then you won't have to churn pitchers because you can't draft or know nothing about SP's. My initial reaction to churning is that the owners don't have enough knowledge of the game (rookies) to draft well so they load up on quantity over quality.


how many people do you know that pick up 4 or 5 spot starters daily (just wondering, not trying to start an argument or anything like that)

i only do it when there is a sure bet or close enough , or if im desprate, usually i only pick up 3 - 5 starts a week, but thats because i have 3 players on the DL so i have the roster spots to do it


3 - 5 a week seems overly excessive to me. I consider that churning. You're talking about nearly 125 moves on Starting Pitching alone in a standard 24-week fantasy season, at least 100 if you're averaging 4 or so per week... I generally finish an entire season with a max of about 35 moves, and that's if my team gets real dinged up and I'm searching for a filler say, at Outfield. And with that, I manage to generally finish in the top 3 of most of the leagues I participate in, with owners finishing with about the same number of moves, generally in the mid-20s, some more than others depending on busts, injuries, etc. To me, that's quality fantasy baseball, where the projections and pre-season strategy is what puts you over, not trying to rack up K's and Wins and praying to God you can compete in the ratios.

Do you think making 125 moves on your rotation alone makes somebody a quality fantasy GM? :-?
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Postby Randy Watson » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:02 pm

FWIW again, this is my first year in H2H after 3 years of Roto.

Here's the advice I got when I asked in this forum about H2H drafting strategy:

http://www.fantasybaseballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=172425&highlight=h2h+strategy

I researched other threads about the pros and cons of this strategy and its ethical implications. We discussed churning in the league prior to the draft and it was determined that churning would be allowed as a viable strategy. No one quit. No one screamed. It was a more civil discussion than this thread to be sure. :-t

Since we discussed it prior to the draft, no one in the league is complaining now. Further, the churners are NOT dominating, but that's probably because I'm such a bad drafter and have no clue what I'm doing. ;-D

Thus far, I think H2H is much less like real baseball than Roto, and requires constant attention, even by teams that are not churning. Two start pitchers, no IP limits, no games played limits, and weekly results all seem like a poor representation of what goes on on the field.

None of us take it seriously enough ($25 per team) to get up at 4 a.m. or pick up guys and drop them so our fellow churners can't pick up starters. We have families first, are friends second, work jobs third, and play fantasy sports fourth - In that order. This isn't about screwing each other over or taking advantage of 12 year olds in a public league. We're grown men and behave like it.

I've held onto Haren and C Young, who I drafted mid-late rounds, and Escobar and Bannister, who I picked up as FAs before the season and/or through churning. To me, finding last year's Garland or a 2004 Carpenter is an offshoot of my strategy. I enjoy combing through the upcoming FA starters to see if someone has been missed or is coming on, or has a great matchup in a pitcher's park. I read the posts by Perlick and others in the Who Do I Start Forum to see their views.

This has been fun for me, and I thought there was a level of skill involved in my drafting strategy and in the way I play week to week, but apparently I was wrong and my efforts are a joke to some. Whatever, I really don't care what you think. ;-D
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Postby josebach » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:04 pm

Randy Watson wrote:FWIW again, this is my first year in H2H after 3 years of Roto.

Here's the advice I got when I asked in this forum about H2H drafting strategy:

http://www.fantasybaseballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=172425&highlight=h2h+strategy


Well, after reading the advice you got from two cafe veterans (Ironman and Cubsfan), I certainly can't blame you for following their advice. What would have been better advice would have been to fix the league settings instead of exploiting them. But you know what? Who cares? It seems like nobody in your league does. Have fun! Next year, add a maximum move limit if you want. I personally think it's more fun and challenging that way, but who's to say pitcher cycling isn't more fun for someone else? As long as every team in the league is all in agreement, it doesn't really matter. ;-D
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Postby tgalv » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:24 pm

not reading the replies, but this is why i always advocate WEEKLY CHANGES in H2H leagues. even though i am an active manager and i could for sure take advantage of the churning, it's just cheap. plus the fact that it is time consuming to do it RIGHT even for the most ardent manager.

after the season gets rolling for a while and you start to tire of fantasy bball, it's a pain in the ass to scour the waiver wire every single day looking for the best ways to maximize your production potential. and if you don't put in the time to do it gets frustrating, to me at least, knowing that your team could be doing better if you just spent more time looking at it. especially if you have a bunch of teams.

this is why I like weekly changes. you do your research then set your lineup once to do battle. then you can just sit back and watch your success/failures without constantly having to strategize ad nauseum.
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Postby josebach » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:31 pm

tgalv wrote:not reading the replies, but this is why i always advocate WEEKLY CHANGES in H2H leagues. even though i am an active manager and i could for sure take advantage of the churning, it's just cheap. plus the fact that it is time consuming to do it RIGHT even for the most ardent manager.

after the season gets rolling for a while and you start to tire of fantasy bball, it's a pain in the ass to scour the waiver wire every single day looking for the best ways to maximize your production potential. and if you don't put in the time to do it gets frustrating, to me at least, knowing that your team could be doing better if you just spent more time looking at it. especially if you have a bunch of teams.

this is why I like weekly changes. you do your research then set your lineup once to do battle. then you can just sit back and watch your success/failures without constantly having to strategize ad nauseum.


Weekly changes are nice, but the problem comes when you have a guy get injured on a Monday and you waste a roster spot for the enitre week. Granted, every owner faces the same risk, but when you can just set a maximum move limit, why bother doing weekly lineups?
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Postby Pokeyouindaeye » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:41 pm

I utterly despise weekly changes leagues due to the large amount of inaction that takes place. If I'm in a weekly changes league, I'm more likely to not check my roster until Sunday, and if I forget about it, I'm screwed until the next Sunday.

Also, Waivers are a freaking joke, it takes nearly two weeks for you to obtain a player put out to waivers, if you get the claim filled on a thursday, it doesn't get implemented until Monday, then you don't even get to put them into play until the following Sunday!
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Postby bigh0rt » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:45 pm

josebach wrote:
tgalv wrote:not reading the replies, but this is why i always advocate WEEKLY CHANGES in H2H leagues. even though i am an active manager and i could for sure take advantage of the churning, it's just cheap. plus the fact that it is time consuming to do it RIGHT even for the most ardent manager.

after the season gets rolling for a while and you start to tire of fantasy bball, it's a pain in the ass to scour the waiver wire every single day looking for the best ways to maximize your production potential. and if you don't put in the time to do it gets frustrating, to me at least, knowing that your team could be doing better if you just spent more time looking at it. especially if you have a bunch of teams.

this is why I like weekly changes. you do your research then set your lineup once to do battle. then you can just sit back and watch your success/failures without constantly having to strategize ad nauseum.


Weekly changes are nice, but the problem comes when you have a guy get injured on a Monday and you waste a roster spot for the enitre week. Granted, every owner faces the same risk, but when you can just set a maximum move limit, why bother doing weekly lineups?


Average age in my league is about 25-26 now, as we've all been in this league for 7 years, and this year finally we overhauled a lot of the way we run our H2H Keeper. We've never placed a move or IP limit, yet nobody has ever exceeded 37 moves, because they know that if they were to churn, they'd be chewed out so badly, it wouldn't be worth it. We discussed switching to weekly changes, as we're all early into our careers at this point in our lives, and some of us (certainly not I ;-) ) can't get on to check our team every day to set lineups and such, so what we did was eliminate our bench all together, and grant 6 DL slots. It's worked out very well thus far, I never have to consider who to start/bench (though I do realize that's part of being a quality fantasy GM, and something I'm missing to a degree 2 1/2 weeks into the season), and we've had no complaints. It puts more emphasis on the draft, and there's always some good quality guys in FA since it's a lot harder to stash guys with no bench (case in point, I've had Delmon Young in my starting lineup all season :-o but I'm really digging it so far, and recommend the switch, along with some of our other new league settings, to anybody who doesn't think their league can manage daily changes, but are hesitant about switching to weekly. ;-D
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Postby tgalv » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:49 pm

josebach wrote:
tgalv wrote:not reading the replies, but this is why i always advocate WEEKLY CHANGES in H2H leagues. even though i am an active manager and i could for sure take advantage of the churning, it's just cheap. plus the fact that it is time consuming to do it RIGHT even for the most ardent manager.

after the season gets rolling for a while and you start to tire of fantasy bball, it's a pain in the ass to scour the waiver wire every single day looking for the best ways to maximize your production potential. and if you don't put in the time to do it gets frustrating, to me at least, knowing that your team could be doing better if you just spent more time looking at it. especially if you have a bunch of teams.

this is why I like weekly changes. you do your research then set your lineup once to do battle. then you can just sit back and watch your success/failures without constantly having to strategize ad nauseum.


Weekly changes are nice, but the problem comes when you have a guy get injured on a Monday and you waste a roster spot for the enitre week. Granted, every owner faces the same risk, but when you can just set a maximum move limit, why bother doing weekly lineups?


yeah that's a good solution but i still like the weekly changes. the injury factor is a pain, but like you said - it's the same for every team. and you also have to factor in the likelihood of players getting hurt when setting your lineup. for example i had nomar playing shortstop the first week and he didn't play a single game. you'd think i'd learn !+)
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