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When is it finally going to be "Orvella Time"?

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Postby warrick95 » Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:13 am

Not gonna argue on whether or not Orvella can be an asset to Tampa's bullpen, because it's obvious that he can. Stop throwing around ST numbers, all they are are ST numbers. He looks to be pitching fine now and should never have been sent down anyway. Why he was is crazy.

Anyway, it's interesting that thehat mentions that Juan Salas is supposed to be the closer of the future, because while I see that as being a possibility down the road, that is quite a ways down the road. Yes, he is at AA now and that makes it seem like he's at the brink of the major leagues, but quite frankly he is not. He's a converted infielder who only started pitching full-time last year. He does have a very live arm that tops out in the mid to high 90s, but he's just not very close to the bigs at this point. He has a fastball, but that's it. Salas is beginning to work on a slider that has potential. He also needs time to work on control and pitching on a whole. Basically, Salas needs experience as a pitcher before he's going to be a contributor in a major league bullpen, let alone as a closer. I would say that he will be ready for the bigs in 2008 (might get a shot sometime in 2007), but may have additional growing pains on the way.

Thus, unless you honestly believe that we'll be fine with Miceli or sign a veteran to close, it's sort of unlikely that Orvella will not get a shot rather soon. And if he does, I don't think he'll pitch poorly enough to get displaced by Salas in the future.
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Postby thehat » Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:54 am

Like I said, Warrick...not my opinion, just passing along some info. Personally, I can't see why they don't at least give Orvella the shot. It's not like he's going to cost them a playoff spot if he messes up, and Miceli is not even the present, let alone the future. And neither is Camp.

What's really perplexing is that Orvella is setting up in Durham, which is at least a possible indicator that the TB brass doesn't see him as a closer. This I don't understand at all.
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Postby warrick95 » Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:04 am

May sound stupid, but I think Orvella's setting up because they don't want to mess up the team fabric by making him set up. It's not the Tampa brass' call, but the manager's call. The Durham manager knows that Orvella's going to be up in the majors soon anyway, so he chose to let someone else close and be acclimated in the role, instead of having Orvella close briefly and force someone else to switch from 8th to 9th later on. Better for the AAA Durham team on a whole.

Don't disclose this information if you don't feel comfortable doing so, but is this source hearing from high ranking officials, or just someone close to Salas' development? Not trying to discredit you at all, but this information is certainly new to me and I am very interested in hearing more about it.
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Postby thehat » Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:18 am

warrick95 wrote:May sound stupid, but I think Orvella's setting up because they don't want to mess up the team fabric by making him set up. It's not the Tampa brass' call, but the manager's call. The Durham manager knows that Orvella's going to be up in the majors soon anyway, so he chose to let someone else close and be acclimated in the role, instead of having Orvella close briefly and force someone else to switch from 8th to 9th later on. Better for the AAA Durham team on a whole.

Don't disclose this information if you don't feel comfortable doing so, but is this source hearing from high ranking officials, or just someone close to Salas' development? Not trying to discredit you at all, but this information is certainly new to me and I am very interested in hearing more about it.


Warrick, you're wrong about the Durham manager making the calls as to how to situationally use Orvella, or anyone else for that matter. Minor league managers do exactly what they are told to do by the big league brass regarding usage of players. The skipper can manage each game as he chooses in terms of in game strategy, but not when it comes to roles for individual players.

While it's possible that you're right as to Orvella's use at Durham, it's TB's call, not the Durham manager. Minor league managers all have one primary responsibility, and that's player development. Winning games is a bonus, but it's absolutely a secondary objective, almost without exception.

(Last year's Jacksonville entry being one of those notable exceptions, by the way. The Dodgers really like this core group of prospects and are trying to not only keep them together, but win together. However, this is a rarity, in that the Jacksonville team, which is now mostly based here in Las Vegas, is LOADED with tp prospects. That's pretty unusual for a single minor league team.)
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Postby warrick95 » Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:21 am

Really. I wasn't aware of that. For Tampa, obviously their intention for their system is for players to be developed, but I thought there would be obvious conflict of interest between minor league managers and their organizations for that reason, as I thought minor league managers were actually interested in winning games, too.

In that case, I am now questioning many batting orders and things that I've seen in the minors, then. I always thought there was an equilibrium between the two reached.
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Postby thehat » Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:44 am

warrick95 wrote:Really. I wasn't aware of that. For Tampa, obviously their intention for their system is for players to be developed, but I thought there would be obvious conflict of interest between minor league managers and their organizations for that reason, as I thought minor league managers were actually interested in winning games, too.

In that case, I am now questioning many batting orders and things that I've seen in the minors, then. I always thought there was an equilibrium between the two reached.


In fact, Jerry Royster (Las Vegas manager) told me that he's really having fun this season, as it's the first time as a minor league skip, that he's being given more of a free rein to try and win games. Nevertheless, when the Dodgers told him to move Young to the OF and Guzman to 1B, he did so...and those certainlty are not the best current positions defensively for either player. It's all about advancing them to the next level.
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Postby warrick95 » Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:04 am

Wait a sec, Joel Guzman was moved to 1B? I thought he was moved to OF?

I have no doubt that the LV manager is having fun this year. I mean, he has Billingsley, Guzman, Broxton, Delw. Young, Ethier, and Martin on one team. He had James Loney, too, until Nomar got hurt.
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Postby raiders_umpire » Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:47 am

warrick95 wrote:Wait a sec, Joel Guzman was moved to 1B? I thought he was moved to OF?

I have no doubt that the LV manager is having fun this year. I mean, he has Billingsley, Guzman, Broxton, Delw. Young, Ethier, and Martin on one team. He had James Loney, too, until Nomar got hurt.




I would rather have BJ, Delmon, Dukes, Jackson, Seddon, and Orvella on my minor league team. ;-D I am just glad they are back home this week, so maybe I can catch a few games at Durham sometime this week.




thehat wrote:Warrick, you're wrong about the Durham manager making the calls as to how to situationally use Orvella, or anyone else for that matter. Minor league managers do exactly what they are told to do by the big league brass regarding usage of players. The skipper can manage each game as he chooses in terms of in game strategy, but not when it comes to roles for individual players.




Normally the minor league coaches do get detailed instructions on what players to put in what positions, but the only instruction Tamargo was given in regards to Orvella was make sure he pitched. It did not matter whether he was used in the 9th inning or even the 5th or 6th innings, just make sure he got his work in, so when the time for the call up is right, his arm will be ready. Maddon and the DRO don't really care if Orvella closes in Durham for the first month, just get the innings in which he has by pitching 6 innings in the first 10 games.
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Postby smith1051 » Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:24 pm

Miceli gave up another ER today in a non save opportunity
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Postby raiders_umpire » Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:33 pm

smith1051 wrote:Miceli gave up another ER today in a non save opportunity





I just don't think he is worth having unless you are in a really deep AL only league. Heck I don't think he is worth having in the Devil Rays bullpen, but they do not call me and ask me for my opinion. :*)
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