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Sources: Bonds may be subject of perjury probe

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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:03 pm

DK wrote:
kentx25 wrote:I just want him out of baseball before he passes 2 of the all time greatest baseball players in the history of the game


Arguing with you is like banging my head against a brick wall. It's noisy, painful, and pointless.

THE TWO PEOPLE HE IS SET TO PASS HAVE BEEN PROVEN AS CHEATERS. IF YOU'RE GOING TO HOLD BONDS TO THIS ANGELIC STANDARD, AT LEAST DO THE SAME FOR EVERYONE.

BONDS HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN OF CHEATING. THE TWO PEOPLE HE IS SET UP TO PASS, WHOSE RECORDS YOU WANT TO KEEP UNTOUCHED AND HOLY, HAVE, IN FACT, BEEN PROVEN OF CHEATING.

YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE.


I really had to get that off my chest. :-°


DK is neutral on the issue, and has said he doesn't like Bonds. But this is the hole in the hate Bonds mentality. Hate them all, or none. Quit picking and choosing which cheaters you like and hate.

Cheating is cheating. The Bonds haters think Bonds cheating was bad, but the other HOF cheaters records and legacy should stay intact.

You guys call it nonsense. I call it not living in a fantasy world.
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Postby nuggets » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:04 pm

kentx12 wrote:This question is directed tword BronXBombers51 but anyone else can feel free to answer.

You admit that steroids were illegal by US law?


Yes is it recognized that use of steroids which have non been prescribed by a legitimate doctor is illegal. It is recognized just as Ruth's illegal alcohol use and Aarons illegal amphetamine use are. 'Admit' is improper word usage here.


Now if this is the case why would baseball need to ban them? I would think that baseball would think that baseball would not have to worry about making a rule to ban something that was already banned by law. Am I wrong here?


Yes and no. A doctor can prescribe steroids to you or me just as easily as he can to Gary Sheffield, so at times steroid use is completely legal. MLB has to define it's own rules, just like your employer
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:32 pm

Yanks04, MLB needs to make it's own rules, whether they are covered by US law or not.
Does US law consider it a crime to cork bats, or doctor baseballs?

Now the question to those who seem to think roids are terrible, but greenies don't add mass, so they don't help a player.

MLB st starting roids testing in 2003. Did they test for greenies then? No. You know why? Because the players union, didn't want them banned. Translation, (players wanted their greenies).

Now ask yourself this. Why would the players fight HARDER to keeping greenies not a infraction under MLB CBA, then roids? If roids are so much better as some claim (no proof that i know of), then why did the players union make such a fuss over greenies. Some of you claim greenies are harmless. Somebody ought to tell the players that?

Remember the link where the sp went up to the 8 starters that day and said, did you beanie up? I want you at youe BEST today.
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Re: Bonds is going down!

Postby cubs2238 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:32 pm

DGroundhog wrote:
cubs2238 wrote:I bet every single one of those guys who said they did not use were lying, except for McGwire who looked like a moron up there. He wouldn't answer but hey I guess at least he didn't lie.


Leave it to our sound bite society to make a guy who refused to lie under oath look bad.

While those around him were spewing a load of lies towards Congress to make themselves look better, Big Mac took the high road and was villified for it.


Sound bite society? Don't belittle me with your catchy little buzz words. At least I am not a steroid apologist. If you can tell me that McGwire didn't sound foolish in front of Congress, whether he was taking the high road or not, you apparently were not paying very much attention during the hearings. Of course you probably just watched what Sportscenter wanted you to see of the highlights.
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Postby cubs2238 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:39 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
SHOCKandAWE wrote:The part that confuses me is how people can continue to stick up and defend him when all the signs point to him taking roids.


The signs point to several other people taking roids too, but they don't get treated like Barry. Hell, people who have been proven to have taken roids don't get the same crap that Barry gets.

Aaron and Mays had allegedly used performance enhancing drugs and Ruth has allegedly used illeagal bats. Do they get torn to shreds like Bonds does?

Bonds is not the only person to use performance enhancing drugs in the MLB. Do I believe he used these drugs? Yes. But I know that the MLB isn't, as HOOTIE calls it, a "saintly church". Bonds is not ruining baseball. It is not clean, never has been. People hating Bonds over this is stupid. He takes way too much crap for something that countless numbers of people have done.


First of all thanks to everyone who supported me when someone said McGwire apparently took the high road.

Okay now on to Aaron, Mays, and Ruth....could you please post the links or show me where I can read about all of this cheating and performance enhancing drugs that Aaron and Mays were taking?
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:55 pm

cubs2238 wrote:Okay now on to Aaron, Mays, and Ruth....could you please post the links or show me where I can read about all of this cheating and performance enhancing drugs that Aaron and Mays were taking?


The Ruth links are in this thread. The Mays/Aaron links were in the 100 page Bonds thread.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:57 pm

cubs2238 wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
SHOCKandAWE wrote:The part that confuses me is how people can continue to stick up and defend him when all the signs point to him taking roids.


The signs point to several other people taking roids too, but they don't get treated like Barry. Hell, people who have been proven to have taken roids don't get the same crap that Barry gets.

Aaron and Mays had allegedly used performance enhancing drugs and Ruth has allegedly used illeagal bats. Do they get torn to shreds like Bonds does?

Bonds is not the only person to use performance enhancing drugs in the MLB. Do I believe he used these drugs? Yes. But I know that the MLB isn't, as HOOTIE calls it, a "saintly church". Bonds is not ruining baseball. It is not clean, never has been. People hating Bonds over this is stupid. He takes way too much crap for something that countless numbers of people have done.


First of all thanks to everyone who supported me when someone said McGwire apparently took the high road.

Okay now on to Aaron, Mays, and Ruth....could you please post the links or show me where I can read about all of this cheating and performance enhancing drugs that Aaron and Mays were taking?


I'll look for the links but I'm sure HOOT, DK or nuggets will get to them before I do.
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Postby nuggets » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:10 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:I'll look for the links but I'm sure HOOT, DK or nuggets will get to them before I do.


I haven't researched the Aaron side of at all. I don't know where those links are.

If you want the best possible info on Ruth and trick bats, you'll have to find a way to look up newspaper articles from that era, find a copy of The Reach Official American League Base Ball Guide 1924 and/or find another way, i.e. something from the MLB Commissioners Office confirming the AL commish did in fact find Ruth using trick bats.
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Postby nuggets » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:38 pm

HOOTIE wrote:Now the question to those who seem to think roids are terrible, but greenies don't add mass, so they don't help a player.

MLB st starting roids testing in 2003. Did they test for greenies then? No. You know why? Because the players union, didn't want them banned. Translation, (players wanted their greenies).

Now ask yourself this. Why would the players fight HARDER to keeping greenies not a infraction under MLB CBA, then roids? If roids are so much better as some claim (no proof that i know of), then why did the players union make such a fuss over greenies. Some of you claim greenies are harmless. Somebody ought to tell the players that?


Joe Morgan knows...Hootie if you haven't read this, you must. :-b

The Need For Speed

Author: "Morgan, Joe" — 4:07 pm November 18, 2005

Congratulations are due to Commissioner Bud Selig for his courageous policy against the use of performance enhancing drugs in baseball. It took a lot of hard work and time and patience, and some help and support from the US Senate, but finally baseball has an anti-steroid policy that will protect baseball from cheaters and false records, and lets fans know that the game is cleaning up its act. However, there is some fine print in this tough new policy that I think is unnecessary and might end up hurting baseball more than it helps baseball.

If you read the fine print in the policy, you’ll find a small section that talks about banning the use of amphetamines, and punishing those that use these supplements. I don’t agree with this part of the policy for many reasons. First of all, amphetamines - or “greenies,” as players like to call them - are a part of the game, and a part of the game’s history. Greenies are as much a part of baseball as pepper and shaving cream pies. Hank Aaron is on the record having said that a lot of his teammates used greenies on a daily basis. I hear they also get mentioned a lot in Jim Bouton’s Ball Four book, which gives you an idea of their historical importance.

I can imagine that lots of great baseball moments wouldn’t have happened if it weren’t for greenies or “player’s coffee” (which is coffee made with greenies). A baseball season is very long, and it’s hard to make it through all those regular season games (and playoff games) just through clean living and the occasional day off. I remember, my last year in the league, when I was an Oakland A before the days of Moneyball, I was under the impression I was drinking player’s coffee before every game. Instead, I was drinking “coach’s coffee” (which is coffee mixed with various types of alcohol and pain killers), and I had one of the worst years of my career. I was lost out in the field, and doing things at the plate that Sally Leaguers wouldn’t do, like not being aggressive at the plate and walking a lot. It took until mid-June before I realized that I was taking the field drunk every day! That’s why I was walking so much - I was too tired and confused, and couldn’t be as aggressive at the plate like I wanted. If baseball bans greenies, then lots more players are going to take the field three sheets to the wind, and lost their aggressive edge. That isn’t good for baseball, fans of baseball, or baseball players.

My main question is: what’s the difference between amphetamines and, say, caffeine? It would probably take a six-pack of Coca Cola (which used to contain actual cocaine!) or 10 Snickers bars to equal the boost of energy a player could get from just two little green pills. Would baseball rather have their players rotting their teeth and getting fat, or would they rather have their athletes operating at their highest level? If you’re going to ban amphetamines from the clubhouse, then why not ban other “enhancing substances”? Why not remove all soda machines? Why not ban champagne from clubhouse celebrations? Why not get rid of all tobacco products, or anything that contains Nutrasweet (a cancer-causing agent in lab rats!), or even sports drinks? A drug that changes the physical make-up of your body should be banned, I agree, because changing your body illegally is wrong, especially if it makes your head grow! But greenies don’t change your body any more than aspirin or cough syrup do. Where do you draw the line?

I say baseball shouldn’t ban greenies. In fact, I think baseball should do the opposite and promote the use of greenies. Here’s why: for one, it would speed up games. A lot of the reason for the length of today’s baseball games - which bores fans in the stands and at home, as well as broadcasters in the booth (good thing Yankee announcer John Sterling introduced me to “broadcaster’s coffee”!) - is that players are dragging their feet. They take their time on the mound, in the batter’s box, on the basepaths. If everyone popped a few greenies before each game, I bet you games would speed up because the players would be excited and ready to go. Also, excited players excite the fans - people love scrappy hustling players like David Eckstein or Neifi Perez. Imagine if everyone on the field was that energetic and full of hustle. It would be a great time for everyone, including the players and the fans and the media.

In addition, greenies would allow baseball to return to its more traditional, smallball roots. Everyone knows that the decline in pitching and the increase in homeruns is directly caused by the rampant use of steroids in baseball. With this new policy in place, players aren’t going to be able to swing for the fences every time like they used to. They’ll have to learn how to manufacture runs, steal bases, and do the little things like move runners over and hit singles, and save the home run for when they really need it. That’s why this year’s White Sox team was such a great story - they played small ball in a world that relies on free-swinging home run hitters and slow people clogging up the bases.

Widespread use of greenies will help ease baseball’s transition from its disgraceful muscle-bound recent past into a brand new future of speed and excitement. I bet you players that never thought of running the bases like Maury Wills or Scott Podsednik would be itching to try and take second at every opportunity. It would keep fans interested, too - they’d never know who’d be next to try and steal a base. It might also bring back the greatest play in baseball, a play that (before this year’s White Sox) was rarely used, if it was ever used: the stealing of home. What’s more exciting than seeing a baseball player take off for home plate as the pitch heads towards the catcher? I don’t think anything is that exciting. And that’s why I think baseball should let greenies stay in baseball.


http://www.yard-work.org/?cat=87

You know, I really wouldn't be suprised if he acutally wrote this :-b
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Postby nuggets » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:44 pm

Hank Aaron admits to and talks about using Greenies in his autobiograpy, I Had A hammer: The Hank Aaron Story by Hank Aaron with Lonnie Wheeler. I guess that settles that.
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