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Sources: Bonds may be subject of perjury probe

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Postby nuggets » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:37 pm

DK wrote:
kentx25 wrote:You just hit the nail on the head. Nonsense. The thing I love best is that the Bonds supporters cant keep the topic on Bonds. They wont admit he did anything wrong but everyone else who has ever picked up a baseball is a cheater. This is truely amazing that people can try to justify something this way.



Yea didn't a hater start this thread?

What has Barry been proven of doing wrong kentx?
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Postby kentx12 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:39 pm

I never doubted that Ruth used a bat that was later banned by baseball. The key word there being later. I see no problem with people doing things that arent illegal. If you can find an edge that isnt cheating more power to you. Steroids are and were illegal in the US when Bonds was taking them. IMO after baseball started testing for steroids Bonds continued to use them because he knew the designer steroids he was taking couldnt be detected. There is no common ground between using a bat which later became illegal and using a drug that is illegal. Please quit with this crap about other people cheated so it is ok for Bonds or others to cheat. That is ludicrous.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:41 pm

kentx12 wrote:I never doubted that Ruth used a bat that was later banned by baseball. The key word there being later. I see no problem with people doing things that arent illegal. If you can find an edge that isnt cheating more power to you. Steroids are and were illegal in the US when Bonds was taking them. IMO after baseball started testing for steroids Bonds continued to use them because he knew the designer steroids he was taking couldnt be detected. There is no common ground between using a bat which later became illegal and using a drug that is illegal. Please quit with this crap about other people cheated so it is ok for Bonds or others to cheat. That is ludicrous.


Wow, you REALLY just don't get it, huh?

The fact that steroids were illegal by U.S. law has nothing to do with them being illegal in baseball. They were not banned from baseball, so using them is not cheating.

If this were the case, then smoking marijuana or breaking the speed limit in your car should also be considered offenses in the MLB. Neither are against MLB rules, but they are both against U.S. law, JUST LIKE STEROIDS.

GET IT?
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Postby Lofunzo » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:50 pm

I really don't agree with Kent on a lot of things relating to Bonds but I do agree with 1 thing. Those that support Bonds seem to deflect blame all of the time. When this thread began, it was because it was reported that perjury charges were being brought up against Bonds. How this turned into a debate between Bonds, McGwire, Ruth, etc. is beyond me but I can figure out why. ;-7 I will reiterate that no matter what McGwire, Ruth, Aaron, Sosa, Palmeiro, and Co. did, that doesn't mean a hill of beans when determining whether Bonds lied under oath. Whether McGwire hit a ball to the moon, Ruth corked his bats, or some junkie on meth ripped off his arms doesn't matter 1 bit as to whether Bonds lied. The same goes for a perceived media bias against him. Be it because of race, attitude, celebrity status or whatever, if he lied, he lied, and he should be punished.

As for removing all of the cheaters from the record book by a statement above, you know what?? Do it. I really would have no problem with that.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:51 pm

Not true as the morals clauses of contracts would allow teams to void contracts of players conviced of committing crimes. Denny Neagle lost his contract for solicitinfg a prostitute, Ponson for DUI. These are far less offenses than perjury or taking illegal drugs or taking drugs without a prescription.

If a player admitted he took steroids, his contract could be voided...just ask Giambi why he never fully admitted it...85 Million reasons.
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Postby kentx12 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:54 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:


Wow, you REALLY just don't get it, huh?

The fact that steroids were illegal by U.S. law has nothing to do with them being illegal in baseball. They were not banned from baseball, so using them is not cheating.

If this were the case, then smoking marijuana or breaking the speed limit in your car should also be considered offenses in the MLB. Neither are against MLB rules, but they are both against U.S. law, JUST LIKE STEROIDS.

GET IT?[/quote]


I sit here confused right now, I really do. I think I get it perfectly. I think the Bonds supporters are the ones who are missing the point or not missing it one of the other.

This question is directed tword BronXBombers51 but anyone else can feel free to answer.

You admit that steroids were illegal by US law? Now if this is the case why would baseball need to ban them? I would think that baseball would think that baseball would not have to worry about making a rule to ban something that was allready banned by law. Am I wrong here?


As I said that was directed to BronXBombers51 but I would love DK to jump in here and tell me if I am making a wrong assumption here as well.
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Postby nuggets » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:56 pm

kentx12 wrote:I never doubted that Ruth used a bat that was later banned by baseball.
Wow, your previous statements sure do seem to tell a different story.


kentx12 wrote:The key word there being later. I see no problem with people doing things that arent illegal.


If the illegal you are talking about pertains to baseball, then you are fine with what Bonds is accused of, using PEDs when the weren't against MLB rules. One note...Ruth was found to have used corked and/or illegal bats after 1923, you'll have to wait a while if you want proper documentation.

If the illegal you're talking about pertains to US law, then you surely have a beef with Ruth's illegal alcohol use, correct?

kentx12 wrote: If you can find an edge that isnt cheating more power to you. Steroids are and were illegal in the US when Bonds was taking them. IMO after baseball started testing for steroids Bonds continued to use them because he knew the designer steroids he was taking couldnt be detected. There is no common ground between using a bat which later became illegal and using a drug that is illegal.


So now we should continue the witch hunt because a bunch of red-scare crazies think Bonds used designer drugs? Wow...well I think Madison uses designer drugs to type super fast and post a lot...let's go get him guys! :-b

Please quit with this crap about other people cheated so it is ok for Bonds or others to cheat. That is ludicrous.


Quit with your crap, claiming anyone is saying it's ok to cheat.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:56 pm

Lofunzo wrote:As for removing all of the cheaters from the record book by a statement above, you know what?? Do it. I really would have no problem with that.


Who are the cheaters? Can you pinpoint them?

No. Nobody can. That's the problem. You don't know who cheated and who didn't. For all we know, Derek Jeter was on steroids every year he led the Yankees to a World Series championship.

And that brings me to my next point...what do you do with team records? What about the Yankees beating the Red Sox in the 2003 ALCS? Giambi (steroid user) hit 2 homeruns in the deciding game. Boston would have been in the World Series if not for that.

How about Bonds in 2002? His team went to the World Series that year. Is it fair to the other teams in the playoffs that the Giants beat? The Giants had an unfair advantage by having Bonds on their roster. That's not fair, is it?

You see my point? There is no way to fairly eliminate records. You can't judge who has abused drugs and who hasn't. You can't change the past. You can only move forward, which is what baseball should do.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:00 pm

kentx12 wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Wow, you REALLY just don't get it, huh?

The fact that steroids were illegal by U.S. law has nothing to do with them being illegal in baseball. They were not banned from baseball, so using them is not cheating.

If this were the case, then smoking marijuana or breaking the speed limit in your car should also be considered offenses in the MLB. Neither are against MLB rules, but they are both against U.S. law, JUST LIKE STEROIDS.

GET IT?



I sit here confused right now, I really do. I think I get it perfectly. I think the Bonds supporters are the ones who are missing the point or not missing it one of the other.

This question is directed tword BronXBombers51 but anyone else can feel free to answer.

You admit that steroids were illegal by US law? Now if this is the case why would baseball need to ban them? I would think that baseball would think that baseball would not have to worry about making a rule to ban something that was allready banned by law. Am I wrong here?


As I said that was directed to BronXBombers51 but I would love DK to jump in here and tell me if I am making a wrong assumption here as well.


You are making a wrong assumption.

If steroids did not NEED to be banned from baseball because they are banned by U.S. law, then smoking marijuana and speeding on the highway shouldn't NEED to be banned either....RIGHT?

By your statements, anyone who broke the speed limit should have their records removed from baseball, just like people who did steroids, since they are both against U.S. law. It has absolutely nothing to do with baseball...obviously. If everything illegal under U.S. law is illegal under MLB rules (which is what your previous post is implying), then people who have broken the speed limit should be banned from baseball.

If you want steroids to be an offense in baseball, you make it illegal under MLB rules. Being illegal under U.S. law isn't good enough. Otherwise, speeding and smoking weed would be offenses in baseball as well.
Last edited by BronXBombers51 on Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:02 pm

kentx12 wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:


Wow, you REALLY just don't get it, huh?

The fact that steroids were illegal by U.S. law has nothing to do with them being illegal in baseball. They were not banned from baseball, so using them is not cheating.

If this were the case, then smoking marijuana or breaking the speed limit in your car should also be considered offenses in the MLB. Neither are against MLB rules, but they are both against U.S. law, JUST LIKE STEROIDS.

GET IT?



[quote="I sit here confused right now, I really do. I think I get it perfectly. I think the Bonds supporters are the ones who are missing the point or not missing it one of the other.

This question is directed tword BronXBombers51 but anyone else can feel free to answer.

You admit that steroids were illegal by US law? Now if this is the case why would baseball need to ban them? I would think that baseball would think that baseball would not have to worry about making a rule to ban something that was allready banned by law. Am I wrong here?

As I said that was directed to BronXBombers51 but I would love DK to jump in here and tell me if I am making a wrong assumption here as well.[/quote]

No. But just in case there is any doubt, that is why they have a morals clause. Commit a felony and you give a MLB club the option to fire you. Simple as that.

Those wanting to obfuscate can do so all they want. The bottom line is that using roids without a prescription is blatantly illegal under Federal Law. So is perjury (obviously). It does not matter if Ruth corked his bats, Aaron took greenies, Niekro threw a spitter, Strawberry did cocaine, etc. It does not exonorate Bonds from being a cheater, a liar and having broken a number of laws. Unless of course you seriously think he thought it was flax seed oil he was injecting into his butt.
Last edited by TheYanks04 on Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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