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Sources: Bonds may be subject of perjury probe

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Postby nuggets » Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:38 pm

quite a claim to Bonds' greatess if you read it all...did WR write this?

http://blogs.foxsports.com/socalsportsfan/CFB

solid:

http://www.columbiachronicle.com/paper/ ... hp?id=2383


A must read
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Postby SHOCKandAWE » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:33 pm

Please someone lock this thing. I think that we could get more participation in some of the better threads but they seem to travel so far off track that most lose interest by the time they get to page 3 of the thread. Who wants to sort through 8 pages of stuff that wasnt related to the topic?
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Postby nuggets » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:47 pm

August 20, 1923: A 4-piece bat used by Ruth is banned by AL president Ban Johnson because of the glue used on it. A protest is made against the Browns' Ken Williams for using a bat with a wooden plug in it. Johnson rules that all bats must be one piece with nothing added except tape extending to 18 inches up the handle. -baseball library.com


Based on the logic of the "save the records from Bonds" people, you can make a case for eliminating Ruth's 1921 (his greatest season ever) and 1920 from the record books as all evidence points to Ruth using now illegal bats in that time frame, which correlates with his two all time high slugging percents, of which he never came close to again.

Ruth slugging % as a Yankee:

Illegal bat years:

1920 .849
1921 .846
1922 xxx (Ruth suspended 3 times for over 6 weeks, very tough mental year for him. Source )

Post bat illegalization:

.764
.739
.543
.737
.772 (Murderers' Row)
.709
.697
.732
.700
.700
.661
.582
.537
.431
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Postby nuggets » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:06 pm

zep wrote:Not sure what this is all about

Bonds admitted to having used Steriods



Sheep sighting.

It has never been proven that Barry has ever used steroids. I have heard others say that he admitted that he used the “Clear” and the “Cream.” I have searched for those responses and have not been able to validate any of them. What I have found is that he admitted to using a cream that his trainer supplied for arthritis and a liquid he believed to be flaxseed oil. His response,

"It was in the ballpark ... in front of everybody. I mean, all the reporters, my teammates. I mean, they all saw it. I didn't hide it."


See with the way the media writes and the way your untrained mind responds this:
Barry Bonds told a federal grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream supplied by the Burlingame laboratory now enmeshed in a sports doping scandal, but he said he never thought they were steroids, The Chronicle has learned.

Federal prosecutors charge that the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative, known as BALCO, distributed undetectable steroids to elite athletes in the form of a clear substance that was taken orally and a cream that was rubbed onto the body


equals "Bonds admitted to taking roids", however, the fact is we don't know if the clear and cream he used were roids.
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Postby nuggets » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:15 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
SHOCKandAWE wrote:The part that confuses me is how people can continue to stick up and defend him when all the signs point to him taking roids.


The point of this is if Bonds lied under oath, he should go to jail. But this shouldn't change his legacy? Why you ask? Because the Bonds haters say his records don't count, he cheated, he's a fraud. Then they go polish their shrine of Ruth, Mays, Aaron. Either hate them all, call them all frauds and cheats, or quit being a hypocrite. This is so easy, yet so hard for some.


Since people are all about the evidence, isn't it hard to prove the case against the players of old?? I don't know. I just know that I would take Bonds being proven guilty in court over some story written about Ruth. Not trying to be difficult here but I don't know how we can prove that Ruth cheated.


Based the info I'm currently amassing one should be able to find where one of Ruth's trick bats is currently on display, or at least a picture of it. People didn't really care that he cheated, it's kind of hard to find the trail to the facts. In the end, the most extreme critics may have to go to the University Libraries at Notre Dame (or another institution possessing the documents) and read the Reach Baseball Guides(which contain evidence and sourcing) themselves.

http://www.nd.edu/~joycecol/Baseball/baseball.html
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Postby kentx12 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:06 pm

wrveres wrote:
If you put Barry in Prison, you will .... make him a Martyr ..




Have you lost your mind?? Why do you try to make everything about race?

The last time I looked Pete Rose was jailed for the same thing that Bonds is being investigated for and last time I looked he wasnt made into a martyr by it, and the last time I looked he was prosocuted and is white. I guess that proves your race theory wrong.
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Postby kentx12 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:20 pm

HOOTIE wrote:
SHOCKandAWE wrote:The part that confuses me is how people can continue to stick up and defend him when all the signs point to him taking roids.


The point of this is if Bonds lied under oath, he should go to jail. But this shouldn't change his legacy?



I dont believe you have to worry about abything changing Bond's lagacy. He will always be remembered as the woest black eye that baseball has ever seen. You can bring up the black sox and everyone else that you want who has given baseball a bad name but look how the majority of true adult baseball fans despise this so called man. People will always remember Bonds and history will help pass this along as he being a cheater, liar, drug abuser and someone who got caught in all his lies. I dont care if he goes to jail or what happens to him as long as he just goes away and I believe that most people agree. Did anyone else see the thousands of fans booing him and chanting nasty things at him last night as soon as he took the field? I just want him out of baseball before he passes 2 of the all time greatest baseball players in the history of the game and hopefully something will happen to him be it jail, suspension, or injury to keep that from happening.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:40 pm

kentx12 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
SHOCKandAWE wrote:The part that confuses me is how people can continue to stick up and defend him when all the signs point to him taking roids.


The point of this is if Bonds lied under oath, he should go to jail. But this shouldn't change his legacy?



I dont believe you have to worry about abything changing Bond's lagacy. He will always be remembered as the woest black eye that baseball has ever seen. You can bring up the black sox and everyone else that you want who has given baseball a bad name but look how the majority of true adult baseball fans despise this so called man. People will always remember Bonds and history will help pass this along as he being a cheater, liar, drug abuser and someone who got caught in all his lies. I dont care if he goes to jail or what happens to him as long as he just goes away and I believe that most people agree. Did anyone else see the thousands of fans booing him and chanting nasty things at him last night as soon as he took the field? I just want him out of baseball before he passes 2 of the all time greatest baseball players in the history of the game and hopefully something will happen to him be it jail, suspension, or injury to keep that from happening.


Yet you don't feel the same things about Sheffield or Giambi?
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Postby nuggets » Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:53 pm

kentx12 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
SHOCKandAWE wrote:The part that confuses me is how people can continue to stick up and defend him when all the signs point to him taking roids.


The point of this is if Bonds lied under oath, he should go to jail. But this shouldn't change his legacy?


I dont believe you have to worry about abything changing Bond's lagacy. He will always be remembered as the worst black eye that baseball has ever seen. You can bring up the black sox and everyone else that you want who has given baseball a bad name but look how the majority of true adult baseball fans despise this so called man. People will always remember Bonds and history will help pass this along as he being a cheater, liar, drug abuser and someone who got caught in all his lies. I dont care if he goes to jail or what happens to him as long as he just goes away and I believe that most people agree. Did anyone else see the thousands of fans booing him and chanting nasty things at him last night as soon as he took the field? I just want him out of baseball before he passes 2 of the all time greatest baseball players in the history of the game and hopefully something will happen to him be it jail, suspension, or injury to keep that from happening.


You lack credibility.

And the ability to spell. It shows you are speaking from a raw, emotional, primal, unrefined and uneducated disposition which has not bee properly been kept in check by the logical and objective side of the human mind.
___________________________________________________________________________________________

I find the majority of true adult baseball fans, the ones who understand it's history, the eras and how to adjust the stats to be in clear favor of leaving records untouched. And I've done a lot of listening and researching lately.

Just because thousands of people boo means essentially nothing in terms of record keeping kentx.

Your problem is you don't understand what stats and records are for. The purpose is to accumulate specific records of events that happened during a specified timeframe. The actual value of the record which is recorded is subject to millions of adjustments when compared other records from other timeframes. Obviously there are adjustments for this era as there are pre and post height adjustments of the mound. It doesn't matter if Bonds gets some type of new age stem-cell therapy and becomes a cyborg who hits 100 HR a season for the next 20 years, the data is recorded and when compared to other data it is properly adjusted. Those that have business in regulating MLB stat recording understand that the initial raw data should not be altered. All data should be in a consistent and controlled environment when it is adjusted to be compared to data from other timeframes or conditions, it should not subject to political manipulation.

Think of it this way kentx, if you change the settings on your new 2K6 baseball game from hard to easy at set a new high in HR on a dynasty team you have to consider the conditions of the record if you want to know the true worth of the record. Hence, Jimmie Foxx's 1932 & '33 and Gerigh’s 1927 & '34 are greater accomplishments than Bonds 73 HR in 2001.

You have no business manipulating the recording of facts.

You do have business in arguing the value of the recorded facts.

i.e. IMHO Gehrig’s 1927 is over-inflated, even in "properly" adjusted terms, because he was apart of possibly the greatest offensive lineup ever. Talk about protection and worn out pitchers!
Last edited by nuggets on Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby kentx12 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:57 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
kentx12 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
SHOCKandAWE wrote:The part that confuses me is how people can continue to stick up and defend him when all the signs point to him taking roids.


The point of this is if Bonds lied under oath, he should go to jail. But this shouldn't change his legacy?



I dont believe you have to worry about abything changing Bond's lagacy. He will always be remembered as the woest black eye that baseball has ever seen. You can bring up the black sox and everyone else that you want who has given baseball a bad name but look how the majority of true adult baseball fans despise this so called man. People will always remember Bonds and history will help pass this along as he being a cheater, liar, drug abuser and someone who got caught in all his lies. I dont care if he goes to jail or what happens to him as long as he just goes away and I believe that most people agree. Did anyone else see the thousands of fans booing him and chanting nasty things at him last night as soon as he took the field? I just want him out of baseball before he passes 2 of the all time greatest baseball players in the history of the game and hopefully something will happen to him be it jail, suspension, or injury to keep that from happening.


Yet you don't feel the same things about Sheffield or Giambi?



I do feel different about them both. I am not a Giambi fan but do at least have a little respect that he came out like a man and admited doing steroids "as much as he could under his contract" and as far as Sheffield goes I really dont know what happened there. I know from reading "the game of shadows" that Bonds gave Sheffield steroids "the clear and the cream" but have seen where Sheffield denies knowing Bonds was giving him steroids. I really wish more on this would come out so we could start a NEW thread on it but as has been mentioned before this thread is about the cheating scum named Bonds so lets please keep it about him.
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