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Bonds talking about Babe

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Postby red » Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:40 pm

Well, I can't find the whole interview, don't remeber where I read it, but this is a pretty decent article explaining the Negro Leagues part of the interview. It seems that the "our heros" thing I mentioned earlier was actually said by Sheffield (on behalf of Bonds point) than by Bonds. Article here:
http://www.nypost.com/sports/37842.htm
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Postby red » Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:47 pm

blankman wrote:
Arlo wrote:And as for Bonds' interview: Yes, it's good to see one of today's stars sticking up for the Negro Leagues and its players, who indeed don't receive the attention and the respect they deserve. But I do think it's strange, and a bit unfortunate, to use Ruth as a reference when the Babe himself was often the target of racist slurs...


I'd have to agree. I think its nice for him to do things for the Negro Leagues, but I think he stepped too far with his comments.


For what it's worth-- I agree with this point. It's very Bonds-like to mention Ruth-- but I think the whole Negro-leagues aspect of the interview is where it came from-- not just an outright "I've targetted the Babe". It is, perhaps, still not the smartest thing to say-- but it's not the same as outright targetting him without the negro-leagues aspect of the interview.
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Postby timkell » Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:03 pm

Its not like all the players were extraordinarily fat at that point in the game. if he had been better he would have been more dedicated and would have gotten in shape.


tal1286, I have to correct you on this one. There's a common misperception that the Babe was fat throughout his career because that's the only image we ever see of him. He was really only like that in his later years.

If you look at his stats from most years of the 1920's, he usually stole over ten bases. His career high was 17, which he accomplished in both 1921 and 1923. In 1921, he also had 16 triples.

The guy could run for a long time.

There's no way he could have been so good without being dedicated to baseball. Sure, he may have drank, etc. but he was still a hard working baseball player.
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Postby blankman » Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:16 pm

timkell wrote:There's a common misperception that the Babe was fat throughout his career because that's the only image we ever see of him. He was really only like that in his later years.


Thats a very good point. Many people do think that Ruth was always fat and that he just happened to be blessed with great abilities without having worked at all for them.
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Postby Nomar4prez » Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:35 pm

[quote="timkell"]

So, yes, if performance enhancing drugs aren't against baseball rules, it wouldn't be cheating. Since they are against baseball rules, though, it's cheating.


There's plenty of other examples of this in other sports. Basketball has a lot of them. They created the 3 second violation because Wilt Chamberlain would just stand in the paint and make it impossible for anyone to get inside. Was he cheating when the rule wasn't there before? No. The difference is that EVERY player could use a corked bat when it wasn't illegal. If only one guy thought of it, that makes him smart, not a cheater.
[quote]

Performance drugs aren't against baseball rules. Steriods and other such drugs are illegal, but there are still MANY drugs that are legal that players can use that do the SAME effect as steriods.

Basketball is a little different b/c everyone gets the same advantage. Everyone could of corked their bat, but I'm sure everyone didn't know they could. BTW, Bill Russell was also a big reason for the 3-second violation. Just had to give my Boston boy some credit. :-D

I do see your point that it wasn't against the rules, so it wasn't cheating, but it just makes me see his 600+ hr's as not as good as others. This also all depends on if he did cork his bat.
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Postby eftda » Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:37 pm

I got a 6 on that quiz. I got numbers 2, 3, 5 and 8 wrong
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Postby blankman » Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:45 pm

Nomar4prez wrote:it just makes me see his 600+ hr's as not as good as others. This also all depends on if he did cork his bat.


Ok, thats your opinion- that corking would make his HR's not as good. But I disagree. When you factor in the difference between today's bats and Ruth's, the better exercising equipment, supplements (not neccesarily steriods), the juicing of the ball and the shrinking of the ballparks, I think the corking becomes insignificant in reference to today's HR's. The fact remains that HR's are easier to hit for today's players. But more importantly, studies have shown that corking does little if anything for HR hitters, so if Ruth did, he didn't have an advantage.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:42 pm

You can compare players from different eras. You cant compare 700 hrs to 700 hrs, but you can compare how the player fared against his league. Ruths career ops+ was 207. Bonds is a staggering 177. Ruths the best ever. I have Bonds 3rd alltime. Bonds was easily the player of 90s. I dont know where this notion that hes only be good the last 3 years. True Helton and Manny have higher slugging %, but you have to consider the park factors. Bonds has spent his career in bad hitters parks. Lets see Helton slug 600 in Pacbell. Bonds by his statements doesnt know alot about bb history and analysis. He just thinks if he passes a Ruth record, he must be better. Still, being in alot of experts top 5, not too shabby.
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Postby tal1286 » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:56 pm

Quote:
Its not like all the players were extraordinarily fat at that point in the game. if he had been better he would have been more dedicated and would have gotten in shape.


tal1286, I have to correct you on this one. There's a common misperception that the Babe was fat throughout his career because that's the only image we ever see of him. He was really only like that in his later years.

If you look at his stats from most years of the 1920's, he usually stole over ten bases. His career high was 17, which he accomplished in both 1921 and 1923. In 1921, he also had 16 triples.

The guy could run for a long time.

There's no way he could have been so good without being dedicated to baseball. Sure, he may have drank, etc. but he was still a hard working baseball player.


yeah you are probably right about him but people were saying basically that bonds only has numbers similar to ruth because he is in good shape. and that was just my frustration cause that is so RIDICULUS!!
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