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Bonds talking about Babe

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Postby Sevillano » Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:26 am

I'm not going to make an argument for who was the better player. I think it's impossible to compare players from different eras because of the numerous factors involved, most of which have been mentioned in previous posts.

I will however, agree with wrveres, by saying that Bond's lack of trust for the media should not effect his status in the game's history. He made a decision, has stuck by it, and has lost endorsement money and fan appreciation because of it. He's been himself, even if it is someone who would just rather play the game and not deal with other distractions, and I respect that.
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Postby Lloyd Christmas » Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:00 pm

Just imagine how many more HR's Ruth would have hit if he was on steroids. Bonds can only fantasize about being the hitter that the Babe was. Babe just needed a beer and a steak to hit homers, not the juice that Bonds is obviously using.

Bonds is the games ultimate JACKASS to make comments like that. He never was, nor will he ever be, half the player that Ruth, Mays, Williams, or any of the other baseball greats. None of them had to cheat to get results.
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Postby blankman » Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:07 pm

Lloyd Christmas wrote:Just imagine how many more HR's Ruth would have hit if he was on steroids. Bonds can only fantasize about being the hitter that the Babe was. Babe just needed a beer and a steak to hit homers, not the juice that Bonds is obviously using.

Bonds is the games ultimate JACKASS to make comments like that. He never was, nor will he ever be, half the player that Ruth, Mays, Williams, or any of the other baseball greats. None of them had to cheat to get results.


You're just asking for someone to argue with you. I won't bother though this time ;-)
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Postby Nomar4prez » Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:02 pm

Just show me proof that Bonds is using steriods, and I will hate him. Don't say his head is big or he got real big, real fast. Show me some hard proof.
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Postby wrveres » Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:52 pm

Arlo wrote:The year Ruth hit 60, 32 of his home runs came on the road; the year he hit 59, 32 were on the road. Both are still AL records, I believe.


thanks ..that is pretty much what I was looking for. ;-D
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Postby timkell » Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:42 pm

So your saying that it isn't cheating when players use performance enhancing drugs, since they're not illegal yet. IMO, this argument is absurd. If Ruth used a corked bat (which I doubt he did), then he did use a form of cheating. He was able to gain an unfair advantage over other players. Maybe it's not even about cheating or not. It's about right and wrong, and what Ruth did (if he did it) was wrong, and he knew it.


Nomar4prez, I don't really get your position here. Here's the relevant webster's definition of cheating: To violate rules deliberately, as in a game.

So, yes, if performance enhancing drugs aren't against baseball rules, it wouldn't be cheating. Since they are against baseball rules, though, it's cheating.

Now, on to Ruth. If Ruth used a corked bat, and it wasn't against the rules, it's not cheating, it's gamesmanship. Back when Ruth played, the spitball wasn't illegal either. Are all of those pitchers cheaters? No! They did whatever was within the rules to ensure more success. Especially when you consider that people were fine with spitballs back then, you'd have to give batters the same leeway. So even if Ruth used a corked bat every at bat, it wasn't wrong.

There's plenty of other examples of this in other sports. Basketball has a lot of them. They created the 3 second violation because Wilt Chamberlain would just stand in the paint and make it impossible for anyone to get inside. Was he cheating when the rule wasn't there before? No. The difference is that EVERY player could use a corked bat when it wasn't illegal. If only one guy thought of it, that makes him smart, not a cheater.

You can't put the modern rules on players back then. That's just not fair. All you can ask is for players to follow the rules that are in front of them.

This is pretty relevant to fantasy, too. Some owners get mad in head to head weekly leagues when another owner shuffles pitchers to get the two start guys. They call that cheating. How is it cheating if it's a strategy open to everyone? It's gamesmanship. There's a big difference.

Sometimes there are things like using a corked bat that once the strategy is universally discovered, the league decides to make it illegal. After that, it's cheating. Before that, gamesmanship.

Agree?
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Postby eftda » Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:51 pm

I have heard that back in the days of Ruth, there were no ground rule doubles, they were scored homeruns. Also if the babe corked his bat then NO ONE can say anything about Jose, Ken, Barry, and Mark McGwire. 3/4 of those guys said that they did use drugs but Barry says he didn't (i think... if he did can someone give me a source ;-D ).

we keep saying "we cant compare Ruth and Bonds, cause it was a diff time". i was wondering : why not, and when can we start comparing. if you say that there was diff pitchers and diff parks then you can NEVER compare cuase there are new parks opening every year and look at the babybacks, they had like 5 rookie pitchers in the last month.
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Postby timkell » Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:54 pm

All I know is, if Ruth were playing today, I bet he'd really suck. He'd be over a hundred years old!

:-D
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Postby eftda » Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:58 pm

ruth was the BEST player of his time

bonds is the best player right now
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Postby Guest » Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:51 pm

lets see bonds pitch
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