Bonds talking about Babe - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Bonds talking about Babe

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby Nomar4prez » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:11 pm

its unfair to use steriod use as a reason to not like him b/c you don't know if it's true. You can he's gotten bigger in a short time, but thats not proof. Right now, Bonds is the most feared hitter in the game. People don't pitch around him b/c they don't want him to get a hit, they do it b/c they don't want him to hit a hr. You can not comapre the two hitter's either. Different era's and the game has changed alot.
[url]http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/stats/player.php?id=453973[/url]
Going to huge someday.
Nomar4prez
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 2198
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Red Sox Nation

Postby timkell » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:33 pm

Clearly Babe Ruth is the greatest player to ever play the game. And, yes, his numbers absolutely destroy Bonds', in particular when you compare how much they dominated their eras.

Still, in granting that, I cannot let the following statements slip by uncontested:
In case that wasn't clear, I know he has the single-season slugging percentage record, but Ruth's fame is a result of a long and distinguished career of brilliance, while Bonds has only been really great for three or four years.


Bonds has been ridiculously awesome for almost twenty years. He's won the MVP 5 times, and he got ripped from winning it two other times.



Bond's big years came only after expansion diluted the pitching and turned him from a star player into a superstar!


You ever hear of the negro leagues? No black players could play when Ruth played. Likewise, with international scouting, the pool of players in MLB now includes parts of the entire world. Expansion is not a valid argument against Bonds.

Still, Bonds is nowhere near as dominant of his era as Ruth was. It's not even close, that's for sure. Still, Bonds is one of the top five players in baseball history, IMO. And that's pretty elite company.
timkell
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 680
Joined: 12 May 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The House that Ruth Built

Postby Brokentusks9 » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:34 pm

Nomar4prez wrote:its unfair to use steriod use as a reason to not like him b/c you don't know if it's true.


People's heads don't normally double in size when you reach the age of 35.

And who said anything about not liking the guy?? He talked smack on a player that is far superior, and people were calling him out on it.
Brokentusks9
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar
Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 628
Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Saskatoon

in bonds defense

Postby Guest » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:59 pm

You can claim that Barry uses roids or something else illegal but you nor anyone else has proven that so lets bring fact in to the picture here. Babe Ruth is the original user of the corked bat and in fact, the rule against them was created specifically due to the use of Ruth's then called "funny bats." Just many other baseball fans were offended and angered by Sammy Sosa's use of a corked bat, I believe, others should judge Babe Ruth's past cheating in a similar manner but with one key difference, Ruth cheated for a longer period of time. Sammy couldn't have been using corked bats before this season due to the examined bats in the Hall of Fame ect...However, Ruth used this form of cheating for years. I feel this should discredit Babe Ruth’s accomplishments somewhat when at this issue objectively.

When comparing Bonds to Ruth relative to the talent existing in their respective careers, yes Ruth produced far superiors statistics but if you where to put Babe Ruth in today’s game to you really think he would produce statistics that much higher than the competition? Barry Bonds very well may be on his way to becoming the better hitter, baserunner and defensive force.
Guest


Home Cafe: Football
Friendliness: %

Postby tal1286 » Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:06 am

IMO should bonds pass aaron he will be top 3. Ruth Mays Bonds. itll be 750 hr and 500 STEALS. NOONE has that. he has gold gloves. doesn't really now but he did win like 8 straight or something like that. he has average. he has OBP he has slugging, not the best, but up there. I don't really like him but you can't deny he is unbelievably talented. there is no doubt.
WOW thats huge about ruth. i never knew that. i still don't believe that corking actually does anything but i wish all the people who were ripping on sammy heard this.
Image

Leyland said, "We thought we were getting a hell of a player, but Neifi simply did not perform well."

really?
tal1286
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
CafeholicPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 1830
Joined: 31 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Verizon Center, Cheering on the Hoyas

Re: in bonds defense

Postby blankman » Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:05 am

Anonymous wrote:Babe Ruth is the original user of the corked bat and in fact, the rule against them was created specifically due to the use of Ruth's then called "funny bats." ... others should judge Babe Ruth's past cheating in a similar manner but with one key difference, Ruth cheated for a longer period of time...However, Ruth used this form of cheating for years. I feel this should discredit Babe Ruth’s accomplishments somewhat when at this issue objectively.



From what you are saying (I don't know whether any of it is true), Babe originally used the corked bat. Then baseball made a rule against them after he used them. So, I gather that when he used them there was no rule against them. Then how is that cheating? If there was no rule prohibitting corked bats when he used them, then he cannot possibly be cheating, since there is nothing to cheat. Further, scientists have researched the differences between corked and uncorked bats and have found very little if any advantage is gained by the corking anyway.

As for Ruth vs. Bonds. Ruth is clearly the better player. Many arguements have been said for Ruth's superiority, but...Also keep in mind that the fences were MUCH farther out (see the former fences at Yankee Stadium) when Ruth played, making HR's much harder to come by. Today's game is based on the HR and literally anyone can hit one in these shrunken park, which was not the case when Ruth played.
blankman
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

Graphics Expert
Posts: 10770
Joined: 6 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: in bonds defense

Postby Sticky Spice » Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:30 am

blankman wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Babe Ruth is the original user of the corked bat and in fact, the rule against them was created specifically due to the use of Ruth's then called "funny bats." ... others should judge Babe Ruth's past cheating in a similar manner but with one key difference, Ruth cheated for a longer period of time...However, Ruth used this form of cheating for years. I feel this should discredit Babe Ruth’s accomplishments somewhat when at this issue objectively.



From what you are saying (I don't know whether any of it is true), Babe originally used the corked bat. Then baseball made a rule against them after he used them. So, I gather that when he used them there was no rule against them. Then how is that cheating? If there was no rule prohibitting corked bats when he used them, then he cannot possibly be cheating, since there is nothing to cheat. Further, scientists have researched the differences between corked and uncorked bats and have found very little if any advantage is gained by the corking anyway.

As for Ruth vs. Bonds. Ruth is clearly the better player. Many arguements have been said for Ruth's superiority, but...Also keep in mind that the fences were MUCH farther out (see the former fences at Yankee Stadium) when Ruth played, making HR's much harder to come by. Today's game is based on the HR and literally anyone can hit one in these shrunken park, which was not the case when Ruth played.


I have never heard this about the Babe supposedly corking but Blankman is right on a few counts. If it wasn't illegal, then how is that cheating. Couldn't all players then use corked bats?

Okay, so let's say the Babe corked. Not only did he hit them in bigger parks, but he was hitting a ball that wasn't as juiced as today's ball. He also wasn't using the same high quality of woods for his bats that players now use.

I almost always agree that "records" and heroes from before EVERYONE was allowed to play in the majors are cheapened and should maybe even be asterisked. One exception in my book is Babe Ruth. There is not one other person in major league history that could have been a HOF pitcher OR hitter. That to me is the argument that can never be beaten when debating the best player of all time.
Sticky Spice
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafe Musketeer
Posts: 1158
(Past Year: 39)
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: At the bottom of the Ancient Cave

Postby Arlo » Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:51 am

blankman and Sticky Spice are both right; rule 6.06 (d) wasn't in effect in Ruth's day...

I also haven't heard any definite evidence of Ruth using cork; as far as I know, this is just a theory (put forth, I believe, by Bill James). Feel free to correct me on this, though.
Arlo
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 8847
Joined: 4 Jan 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Cheap Seats

Postby blankman » Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:55 am

Arlo wrote:I also haven't heard any definite evidence of Ruth using cork; as far as I know, this is just a theory (put forth, I believe, by Bill James).


I haven't heard any either, but to clarify for everyone (I know you, Arlo, understood) my arguement was made assuming that the cork theory is true. But I don't think the cork theory, true or not, diminishes in any way, Ruth's accomplishments as the greatest player of all time.
blankman
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

Graphics Expert
Posts: 10770
Joined: 6 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby BillyMafia » Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:25 pm

Bonds held an entertaining, expansive session with reporters Monday, speaking most passionately about the Negro Leagues Museum in Kansas City, Mo., which he recently visited. "We should put our stuff in that," he said, referring to memorabilia from black ballplayers, adding that he would also like to see it displayed in Cooperstown.
"Yet, you say there's no segregation in baseball?" Bonds asked rhetorically. "We are an extension of that museum."

Bonds, by the way, in the same vein of conversation, said Hank Aaron can keep his record of 755 home runs. It's Babe Ruth who Bonds wants to take down from his pedestal.

"The one I care about is Babe Ruth and 715," the six-time MVP said. Asked why, Bonds replied, "As a left-handed hitter, I knocked him out. That's it. Because, according to baseball, Babe Ruth is everything. I got his slugging percentage, his on-base percentage, his walks, and when I take his home runs, that's it. Don't talk about him anymore . . . I'm the next generation of the Negro Leagues. Hank Aaron can have those 755 home runs.''
BillyMafia
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1283
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron
Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact