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Is it too early to vent a little?

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Postby MotorCityKitties » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:39 pm

mcqfesijiba wrote:Alexis Gomez's stats from AA this year: In 27 ABs, he put up a line of .148/.172/.296 for an OPS .469. I'm sorry. There is no reason whatsoever Gomez should have hit 5th, let alone DH. Lots of other things apparently happened in the game yesterday, but this one little fact just sticks out so big.


Yeah, the "superstition" of hitting Shelton 6th has got to stop.

However, I did like the clip of Leyland flipping out in the post-game interview. If you didn't see it he was basically saying the team went out and didn't care whether they won or lost and that no one showed any heart.

During Tram's interviews after a loss he would just sit there and say "Blah blah blah, tomorrow's another day, blah blah blah." No emotion no nothing.

Edit: Oops, sorry moochman. I see you made a post about this already.
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Postby moochman » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:49 am

As I listened to the game tonight, a 4-3 loss to the A's, I couldn't help but wonder how much longer Leyland can justify keeping Shelton at 6th. He ended up leading off three times tonight. That's ridiculous. That means the #5 hitter made 3rd outs 3 times. Thanks for coming out Thames.

The trouble is he called out the team, today they still played poorly, with too many weak ABs and poor fielding. Pudge and Maggs in particular didn't sound as if they were being the least bit selective at the plate. Too bad, this was a game they could've won with sound fundamental ball. Back to the point, if Leyland calls out the players, doesn't he have to be held accoutable for having easy outs hitting 5th? Does Maggs poor plate discipline reflect his worries that there isn't anyone protecting him, keeping pitchers honest?

The more I think about it, the more I think Leyland is making a big tacticle mistake by trying to protect Shelton.
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Postby mcqfesijiba » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:01 pm

moochman wrote:As I listened to the game tonight, a 4-3 loss to the A's, I couldn't help but wonder how much longer Leyland can justify keeping Shelton at 6th. He ended up leading off three times tonight. That's ridiculous. That means the #5 hitter made 3rd outs 3 times. Thanks for coming out Thames.

The trouble is he called out the team, today they still played poorly, with too many weak ABs and poor fielding. Pudge and Maggs in particular didn't sound as if they were being the least bit selective at the plate. Too bad, this was a game they could've won with sound fundamental ball. Back to the point, if Leyland calls out the players, doesn't he have to be held accoutable for having easy outs hitting 5th? Does Maggs poor plate discipline reflect his worries that there isn't anyone protecting him, keeping pitchers honest?

The more I think about it, the more I think Leyland is making a big tacticle mistake by trying to protect Shelton.
Haha, yeah. Can it be any more obvious that as I stated before, having a HUGE hole in the #5 spot is a total rally killer. Shelton hits solo home runs because *gasp* the guy in front of him is an out machine.

Hmm, how much longer is Nook Logan going to be hurt for? We might want to call him up when healthy and give him a shot at DHing in the #5 spot :-D
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Postby moochman » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:41 am

You can include the guys at 3 & 4 as rally killers, too, mcq. Last night it was putrid watching Maggs flailing away after yet another terrible AB by Pudge.

This is one of Leyland's greatest challenges: trying to get Pudge to change his mindset at the plate. Or moving him to the second half of the line-up if he refuses to learn to hit like a professional. You just can't have your #3 hitter swinging like a madman and walking about as often as he homers. He goes up the plate with no reguards to the situation, and it shows.

Then there is Maggs, looking less and less like the old Maggs and more like the new Higgy. Okay that's a drastic example, but I don't see him driving the ball. Even mistakes aren't hit with authority.

So you have your hottest hitter, who was also your second most consistant hitter last season, at whatever spot in the line-up, hitting behind a #3 who lacks the discipline to give solid ABs at a crucial spot, and #4 who has yet to find his stroke, and a #5 who is a AAA player or an over-rated, over-weight Young. Then coming up with bases empty is Shelton. And you don't want to move him?!?!?

Not with ya here, Leyland. Just don't get it.
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Postby mcqfesijiba » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:52 am

I sure hope Ordonez is just in a little early season funk. Sure he has had some poor hitters in that spot directly behind him, but that isn't really an excuse for the poor ABs he's had.

Well just look at Alexis Gomez with the 2 hit game and scoring 3 runs. Man, I'll bet he's never seen so many good pitches to hit in his life with Shelton right behind him. I'll bet a legit offensive threat right in front of Shelton would look real nice *hint, hint*. Hmm, maybe when we play interleague games, we can run our pitchers out there in front of Shelton. They should see some nice pitches, haha. Shelton has had 2 games in a row now without an extra base hit. Hopefully Leyland won't stick too long on his "superstition", which by the way has seen the team go 3-7 in their last 10. Is Shelton's hot hitting more important than giving the team their best chance to win? Not to me it isn't.
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Postby moochman » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:20 pm

mcqfesijiba wrote:Hopefully Leyland won't stick too long on his "superstition", which by the way has seen the team go 3-7 in their last 10. Is Shelton's hot hitting more important than giving the team their best chance to win? Not to me it isn't.


I simply don't know why he doesn't surround Shelton with more help. If he is so insistant on him batting 6th, then he needs to move Guillen to 4th, Maggs to 5th and put Pudge at 7th.
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Postby mcqfesijiba » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:05 pm

Alexis Gomez. 3 for his last 5 with 2 doubles. In the starting lineup again tonight. I still think he isn't the answer at #5, but he is seeing some nice pitches between Ordonez and Shelton and taking advantage. Meanwhile Thames hasn't had a hit in his last 6 games spanning 15 ABs. If Thames bats 5th again anytime soon, I am going to puke. I'll be watching the game tonight (on FSN) because I don't have anything better to do and will be watching Gomez closely. Good move though is having Gomez in RF and Ordonez DH. Gomez can cover some ground out there even if his arm sucks.
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Postby moochman » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:35 am

Given that the Tigers are 11-7 I can't help but thinking this Leyland dude might know a little about what he is doing. I do wish he come to his senses and put Shelton at 5th. He had 4 ABs tonight and led off the inning 4 times. I don't even want to know how many runners Gomez stranded so that Shelton could lead-off.

But 11=7 ;-D That will shut me up. Til tomorrow at least :-b


(Is Jones going to be able to take back the closer role, or are they going to share?)
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Postby mcqfesijiba » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:28 am

Yes, the record is good. I can't help but feel we are beating up on weaker teams though. But it is important to get the job done vs the weaker teams. And last night, IMO, Meche was not good at all, and more runs probably should have been put up on the board, but they won. Robertson was impressive, but at the same time Seattle's offense was unimpressive. The Angels will make for a much more interesting challenge.

And by the way, about Alexis Gomez last night. He played defense ok making a nice play or two, but his performance as the #5 hitter: :-P He still looks like a weak bench hitter thrown into the middle of the lineup. And Shelton led off an inning 4 times last night after Gomez made the 3rd out (with runners on base every time I might add). One of those was a run scoring situation in the 7th inning, where the Mariners pitched around Ordonez and loaded the bases to get to Gomez. Of course Gomez struck out. Can we get away with a handicap like that against the likes of the Yankees, Red Sox, White Sox, or Indians? I don't think we can. Haha, I said I'd be watching Gomez closely and that I did. Shelton isn't exactly scorching hot anymore, so is it time to break with the superstition yet?

Man, Shelton has an OBP near .450 and Guillen is just barely under .400. How many times do you see your #6 and #7 hitters as your team's best on base threats, haha.
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Postby moochman » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:59 am

It is the most puzzling thing. The players obviously respect and like playing for Leyland, and the pitching staff has been much better than most would have hoped for, but why you would put a AAA player in the 5 hole leaves me shaking my head.
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