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Is it too early to vent a little?

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Postby fraquar » Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:03 pm

Tigers are toast; done; history.

Any team that sits 3 starters - with another on the DL must feel they are playing meaningless games. That is EXACTLY what they did today against Cleveland by sitting in one fell swoop Pudge, Maggs and Polanco (The 3rd day off for both Polanco and Maggs in the last 6 days).

They even had the nerve to do this in front of a HOME crowd on a SATURDAY.

Tigers are toast this year if they are gonna field a AAA lineup every 5 days.
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Postby mcqfesijiba » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:44 am

fraquar wrote:Tigers are toast; done; history.

Any team that sits 3 starters - with another on the DL must feel they are playing meaningless games. That is EXACTLY what they did today against Cleveland by sitting in one fell swoop Pudge, Maggs and Polanco (The 3rd day off for both Polanco and Maggs in the last 6 days).

They even had the nerve to do this in front of a HOME crowd on a SATURDAY.

Tigers are toast this year if they are gonna field a AAA lineup every 5 days.
Leyland is being as cautious as possible with certain starters and apparently those three all had various minor injuries and needed rest. Going to be happening a lot this year unfortunately. But, yes they did put out a pathetic lineup out there on Saturday and the players we have beyond the starters will be the team's biggest weakness. Leyland has been coming up with some wacky lineups. Inge is not a #5 hitter. Thames cleanup vs a RHP also isn't going to get it done. All the while Leyland remains stubborn and leaves Shelton 6th. And the bottom third of the order was the always intimidating Alexis Gomez, Monroe (0 BBs, 11 K), and Vance Wilson . :-) These were the guys "protecting" Shelton in the lineup today.

Good thing about Saturday's game: the bullpen (Tata and Seay) shut down the Indians for the final 5 1/3 innings after Bonderman got crushed. Hopefully it was just a bad game for Bonderman.

As far as DY goes, I think the team will be ok without him, but his left handed bat and power will be missed. Thames is decent enough, but is another right handed slugger. They may have to give Phelps (off to a slow start and bats right), Hannahan (bats left, low upside, not much power, but a decent hitter), or David Espinosa (switch hitter, a bit of pop, but streaky) a look if DY is out for long. Clevlen was mentioned, but he's off to a slow start. Not that that stopped the Tigers with Tony G last year, but they had no real options at middle infield ahead of Tony G. Same thing with Tata.

Here's hoping most, if not all three, of Maggs, Pudge, and Polanco are back out there today.
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Postby moochman » Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:05 pm

My understanding is that Pudge has a sore ankle and you have to give your C some rest. Yes, I just defended resting a player in April. The sore ankle swayed my otherwise steller judgement (tongue firmly in cheek). Polanco has sore hammys or something, and Maggs AND THIS SHOULD BE ALARMING has a sore knee. 8-o :,-(

If it is open season to complain about Leyland, as some have done *cough*mcq. :-b I don't get why he would have taken the opportunity to put Shelton at 3 or 4. Granderson, Guillen, Shelton is a pretty good 1-2-3. I also don't know why when Granderson hits a lead-off single, with a rookie making his first start and a C who isn't known to have that strong of an arm, why didn't he have Curtis steal? It could have rattled the pitcher and change the whole tenor of the game. I was shaking my head when I saw that....er.....listened to that.

I also don't understand why it is that everytime the Tigers face a pitcher they have never seen before they cannot hit them. It doesn't seem to matter who the pitcher is, they won't touch him. Why is that? It doesn't seem to baffle other teams, so why us?

On the plus side, I like what Tata is showing. With Maroth's lingering shoulder issue, I could forsee either he or Zumaya getting a chance to start in the near future. Unless DD interfers and insists on bringing Colon up to pitch. He does have to justify last year's trade afterall.
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Postby Dan Lambskin » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:06 am

fraquar wrote:Tigers are toast; done; history.

Any team that sits 3 starters - with another on the DL must feel they are playing meaningless games. That is EXACTLY what they did today against Cleveland by sitting in one fell swoop Pudge, Maggs and Polanco (The 3rd day off for both Polanco and Maggs in the last 6 days).

They even had the nerve to do this in front of a HOME crowd on a SATURDAY.

Tigers are toast this year if they are gonna field a AAA lineup every 5 days.


i was at that game, what a joke
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Postby mcqfesijiba » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:12 am

I'm not really ripping on Leyland yet. Just kind of keeping watch on a few little things he does :-) Expectations are very high for him as well as for the team. It's not the resting of the players I am questioning, but moreso worries about the players that have to replace them all at once. It hurts a little to have one of them out in a game, but all three of them is just HUGE. Not Leyland's fault. We don't have a team of iron men and we are going to see a lot more of this throughout the season. Bonderman's off game put them in a big hole, and the weak lineup gave them little chance to make a comeback in that particular game.

Hopefully Ordonez's "sore knee" was an exaggeration since he was out in the field yesterday. Maybe it's time to DH Ordonez a little more and Infante a little less with Thames in RF. I guess Craig Monroe's slow start isn't making that too easy.

How about Pudge? He's looking a little more like the 2004 Pudge than the 2005 one...for now. Hopefully he keeps it up.

I understand Leyland's stubborness to move up Shelton, but I would like to see him move to #5 and give Ordonez some direct protection. Thames isn't going to get it done most days. Or at the very least, move up the good OBP of Guillen to #5 so we actually have him getting on base in front of a run producer, like Shelton. Guillen is being wasted at #7, partly due to how strong the rest of our lineup is. It's just my opinion that having a hole at #5 like we do can be a bigtime rally-killer.

Hopefully Shelton's 1/14 BB/K ratio doesn't slow him down at some point. He shows some patience, but I've seen him K on some bad pitches already.

Gotta like what we saw from Maroth. Hopefully that sore elbow was an exaggeration. He looked good. Maybe Kenny Rogers experience is having a good effect on him? The announcers did note that they are similar pitchers, and that is definitely true.

How about the AL Central living up to it's hype in the early going? All teams except the lowly Royals are at .500 or better. Lots of baseball to go. Can the Tigers keep it together? It's going to be one tough division, so it will be interesting to find out.
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Postby mcqfesijiba » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:01 pm

Even though the big story today (so far) is the Indians pounding Robertson in the 3rd inning, I am totally baffled by the decision to DH weak hitting Alexis Gomez AND bat him 5th. :-?

Ok, this means
A) Magglio has no protection directly behind him, since Alexis Gomez is hardly feared by opposing pitchers.
B) Shelton has a weak hitter in front of him, thus limiting his RBI opportunities.

Anybody seeing the logic by Leyland that I am not?
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:43 pm

I was listening to the game opening earlier and I couldnt believe it when I heard it. Alex Gomez was hitting 5th??? I would really like an explanation for that one. What does Shelton have to do to move up a spot? :-?
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Postby Dannomyte » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:01 pm

I went to the game today and man what a mess.

Inge is definitely NOT the answer at 3B. He had the error that lead to the Tribes 1st run and could have easily been called for a 2nd error that lead to 4 or 5 of the runs in the 3rd. He let a tailor made double play ball go under his glove and they ruled it a hit. I disagree.

The Hafner run in the 4th should have never happened but Guillen dropped the cut-off throw. Had he caught it he would have easily thrown out Hafner at home imo.

The HR by Guillen was an absolute bomb.

WTF is Alexis "AAA" Gomez doing hitting 5th when Shelton is still hitting 6th??? I realize Leyland probably wanted to break up the run of righties in the line-up but why not use Guillen there if you have to use a lefty??? Good god man!

Granderson had no chance today. he made an average pitcher like Byrd look like a Cy Young winner. Some of the swings he took were almost laughable. V-Mart must have told him what pitches were coming because that's the only way I can figure out how Granderson walked today. This guy should be hitting in the bottom 3rd of the line-up. Don't get me wrong I'm a big Granderson fan but it's feast or famine with him and at lead-off you need consistency. He is a lot of things but consistent is not one of them.

Gotta love Monroe's line for this series! 1 for 12 with 8 strike outs. His buddy Carlos Pena would be proud!

This team couldn't get a clutch hit to save their lives.

Robertson wasn't great today but he wasn't as bad as the final score shows.

That's all for now. It's nap time.
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Postby moochman » Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:08 pm

Gomez at 5th? Leyland must have drank a fifth before filling out his line-up card. :*) There is no reason to have Shelton hitting solo homers from the 6th spot. He won't stay hot forever, especially with little protection around him. The revised line-up should have Guillen/Polanco/Pudge at the top, followed by Shelton and Ordonez. Granderson has shown enough pop to hit 6th, then the Notorious INGe. Then the remaining patheticly cold OFer and DH can strike out a couple times and we can start over.

Another thing I wondered about is how long does Leyland stick with struggling starters? First he lets Bonderman get beat around, now Nate the not-so-great Robertson.

At this point I will mark this all down as Leyland's learning curve. He is trying to find out who will do what, and when they will do it.

And Danno, Inge has never been the answer at 3rd, but a question. DD just can't seem to find a 3rd-baseman to save his life.

Keep the faith, lads, another road trip is at hand. Maybe these cats play better away from the death star known as Comerica Park.
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Postby mcqfesijiba » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:56 am

Alexis Gomez's stats from AA this year: In 27 ABs, he put up a line of .148/.172/.296 for an OPS .469. I'm sorry. There is no reason whatsoever Gomez should have hit 5th, let alone DH. Lots of other things apparently happened in the game yesterday, but this one little fact just sticks out so big.
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