Billy Wagner keeps Enter Sandman; New York Riots - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Billy Wagner keeps Enter Sandman; New York Riots

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby jayman » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:49 pm

I don't care and I'm sure Mo is not losing any sleep over this.
But, I understand why some people are upset.

It's like coming the Yankees and having the nerve to ask Jeter for his number.

A while from know when Jepordy has the answer "Tough NY closer known as the Sandman", almost everyone will answer Mo.

I honestly don't get why Wagner would keep the song. He's a great closer but he's no Mo. Even if he pitches great this year, he's still no Mo. To me, it seems like he's looking up to Mo, and that's the way it should be.
jayman
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1151
Joined: 6 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: In the holosuite playing the Vulcans!

Postby ironman » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:55 pm

jayman wrote:It's like coming [to] the Yankees and having the nerve to ask Jeter for his number.


No its not. Its not even close to that. The last time I checked the Mets and Yankees were separate teams. Wagner entered to the song prior to playing with the Mets and he has every right to enter to it now.
Image
Wendigo's Camaro
ironman
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerEagle EyeWeb Supporter
Posts: 4901
(Past Year: 97)
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Dubuque

Postby garf112 » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:15 pm

AT, I'm sorry, but you need to understand that Wagner playing that song has nothing to do with Mariano Rivera and the Yankees. There careers began at the same time. They even became full-time closers in the same year. I, unfortunately, don't have information to back up who used the song first; it could very well have been Wagner. Bottom line is that it is just a song. When I heard Mike and the Mad Dog talking about it yesterday, I just laughed. Why does this matter? This is not "disrespect." Nor is it "classless" or "insulting." This is a guy who has been doing things a certain way for 12 years now. Is he supposed to just change because another guy who plays the same position from the team across the river uses it, too?

Pitchers are creatures of habit. Remember when Mike Mussina complained about a tribute that went on too long, throwing off his normal routine? He is an extreme case, but you get the point.
Join Pennant Wars today! A simulated fantasy baseball game where you are the General Manager.

http://www.pennantwars.com/index.php?r= ... &user=2163
garf112
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe Ranker
Posts: 2307
(Past Year: 42)
Joined: 10 May 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby acsguitar » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:18 pm

Creeping Death would be a sweet song
I'm too lazy to make a sig at the moment
acsguitar
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Graphics Expert
Posts: 26722
Joined: 7 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Back in General Talk WOOO!!!

Postby AT » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:23 pm

jayman wrote:I don't care and I'm sure Mo is not losing any sleep over this.
But, I understand why some people are upset.

It's like coming the Yankees and having the nerve to ask Jeter for his number.

A while from know when Jepordy has the answer "Tough NY closer known as the Sandman", almost everyone will answer Mo.

I honestly don't get why Wagner would keep the song. He's a great closer but he's no Mo. Even if he pitches great this year, he's still no Mo. To me, it seems like he's looking up to Mo, and that's the way it should be.


That's the exact same thing that my friend (A big Phillies fan) who I spoke to about this today said to me. Except it wasn't a while from now. It already happened. He thinks Wagner is in the wrong here and he's a Philly fan (Not bitter about Wagner leaving, I asked.) And as for who had it first? Rivera technically, but I don't think who had it first should matter.

Garf I understand your point, but it has everything to do with Mariano and the Yankees. How could it not? Mo is a tremendous figure in this town and is recognized by that song and has been for a decade. I understand it's just a song, but in New York it's Rivera's song and a big part of his image with the fans and for the Mets' new closer to be playing that song in New York, it's a big deal.
Image
AT
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3920
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: On Parole

Postby Xtreemes » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:26 pm

Baseball players are creatures of habit. As a Mets fan I don't want him changing one thing that has made him the successful closer he is.
Xtreemes
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 533
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby garf112 » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:27 pm

I realize that Mariano Rivera will forever be known as the greatest closer of all time, but if you look at the regular season stats Mo and Wagner are very similar pitchers (with Mo being more durable).

The difference is only in their playoff stats. Mo's numbers are astounding 0.89 ERA in 111.2 IP.

Billy Wagner has a 9+ ERA in 4.2 IP.

Yankees' playoff appearances= 11 (7 ALCS, 6 WS)

Astros/Phillies playoff appearances= 4 (0 NLCS, 0 WS)

Some might argue that Wagner just didn't have the opportunites that Rivera had. I am not taking anything away from Mo, but part of his greatness has been that he has played for a team that has been dynastic. I also understand that winning championships in all sports is part of greatness.
Join Pennant Wars today! A simulated fantasy baseball game where you are the General Manager.

http://www.pennantwars.com/index.php?r= ... &user=2163
garf112
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe Ranker
Posts: 2307
(Past Year: 42)
Joined: 10 May 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby AT » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:32 pm

garf112 wrote:I realize that Mariano Rivera will forever be known as the greatest closer of all time, but if you look at the regular season stats Mo and Wagner are very similar pitchers (with Mo being more durable).

The difference is only in their playoff stats. Mo's numbers are astounding 0.89 ERA in 111.2 IP.

Billy Wagner has a 9+ ERA in 4.2 IP.

Yankees' playoff appearances= 11 (7 ALCS, 6 WS)

Astros/Phillies playoff appearances= 4 (0 NLCS, 0 WS)

Some might argue that Wagner just didn't have the opportunites that Rivera had. I am not taking anything away from Mo, but part of his greatness has been that he has played for a team that has been dynastic. I also understand that winning championships in all sports is part of greatness.


All good points and similar points can be made for Trevor Hoffman as well. I think the reason why this is being made into such a fuss in NY is because the song is synonymous with Mariano and the Yankees, not Wagner and the Mets. Even if Wagner was a superior pitcher I still think the situation would be the same.
Image
AT
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3920
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: On Parole

Postby 5 » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:42 pm

Why are Yankee fans so sensitive?
5
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 2296
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Minor League Skilz » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:49 pm

Are there any Mets fans out there that would rather Wagner had a different entrance song?

I don't think we have touched on that yet. I have discussed this with several Mets fans and they mentioned that they do not want any song associated with the Yankees playing at Shea as they watch their team. Maybe they just don't want to hear Yankees fans complaining or maybe they don't want to be accused of being unoriginal.

The Mets have a new stadium deal, a new network, and a new closer. Why stop there? It's time for a new song.
Image
Minor League Skilz
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1518
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: THE most comfortable stool in the bar!

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Thursday, Jul. 31
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Chi White Sox at Detroit
(1:08 pm)
Colorado at Chi Cubs
(2:20 pm)
St. Louis at San Diego
(3:40 pm)
Philadelphia at Washington
(7:05 pm)
Seattle at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
LA Angels at Baltimore
(7:05 pm)
Cincinnati at Miami
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Toronto at Houston
(8:10 pm)
Minnesota at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Pittsburgh at Arizona
(9:40 pm)
Atlanta at LA Dodgers
(10:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact