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clemens is no all star

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clemens is no all star

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 11, 2003 6:53 pm

with a 6-8 record and 3.68 era, what are the sportswriters crying about? the allstar game's about stars this year (dontrelle and moyer), not guys hanging on their laurels.
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Postby Guest » Fri Jul 11, 2003 6:54 pm

correction: 8-6.
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Postby Pokeyouindaeye » Fri Jul 11, 2003 7:59 pm

Let me say this.


This may be Clemen's last year in baseball, they should let him go as they did with Cal Ripken Jr., who by his stats that year was in no position to go to the All Star game either.

Why not let one of the better pitchers of the last 20 years go as an All Star?
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Postby red » Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:01 pm

Oh here we go again.

Why? Because he doesn't deserve it, as previously stated-- and other than the fact that they're both men and baseball players Roger Clemens and Cal Ripken can not be compared-- should never again share the same sentence.

Read the entire discussion from a couple days ago here:
http://www.fantasybaseballcafe.com/foru ... hp?t=18182
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Postby Hyde » Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:26 am

I don't know why people think Cal Ripken was an honorary all star back in 2001 because he wasn't. Cal was the leading vote getter at 3b. Tony Gwynn was an honorary all star that year, which is understandable since he had a .338 career lifetime average and it was his last season. It won't be long before Tony's son is smacking the ball around in big league parks just like his dad.
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Re: clemens is no all star

Postby HOOTIE » Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:27 am

Anonymous wrote:with a 6-8 record and 3.68 era, what are the sportswriters crying about? the allstar game's about stars this year (dontrelle and moyer), not guys hanging on their laurels.


I probably wouldnt pick Roger for team, but whats wrong with a 3.68 era in the al? If his 3.51 era in 01 was good enough for a cy, a 3.68 choice certaintly isnt horrible.
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Re: clemens is no all star

Postby Jack-In-A-Box » Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:51 am

HOOTIE wrote:
Anonymous wrote:with a 6-8 record and 3.68 era, what are the sportswriters crying about? the allstar game's about stars this year (dontrelle and moyer), not guys hanging on their laurels.


I probably wouldnt pick Roger for team, but whats wrong with a 3.68 era in the al? If his 3.51 era in 01 was good enough for a cy, a 3.68 choice certaintly isnt horrible.


Hell, if M.Williams can go with a 6+ ERA.. Clemens can go without any question from anyone!
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Re: clemens is no all star

Postby wrveres » Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:29 am

Anonymous wrote:with a 6-8 record and 3.68 era, what are the sportswriters crying about? the allstar game's about stars this year (dontrelle and moyer), not guys hanging on their laurels.


It still amazes me that Clemens fans have to ask for respect for him at the end of his career. He really could have just earned it, but he chose not to. That will be his legacy, ala Ty Cobb.
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Postby blankman » Sat Jul 12, 2003 9:59 am

I'll abstain from arguement but I read this on ESPN.com and I thought it was pretty interesting and true. The arguement in the article was not for Clemens, it just used Clemens as an example:

Joe Morgan (a section from his article)

Position Players Shouldn't Vote For Pitchers
"In a new twist introduced this year, players voted for the All-Star team reserves (in years past, managers chose the reserves). Fans still picked the starters, as usual.

But I see a problem with player voting -- especially when position players vote for pitchers. Clemens is not popular with many of the batters he faces. A batter who has been plunked or brushed back by Clemens isn't likely to vote for him. Bob Gibson wasn't popular in his day, either. You can be sure hitters wouldn't have voted for him!

In fact, I don't think you could ever get batters to vote for Clemens. He has been an intimidator throughout his career, and that's part of what makes him a great pitcher. Pedro Martinez is similar. After he hit Derek Jeter and Alfonso Soriano recently, do you think any Yankee would vote for him?

I do think that players should have a vote, but only pitchers can vote fairly for other pitchers. Otherwise, leave the selection of pitchers in the hands of the managers. Too much animosity can build up over time in the competition between hitters and pitchers. I could tell you about lots of pitchers I didn't like (but I won't). It's only human nature that this would influence one's judgment in an All-Star voting process.

The All-Star selection process never has been perfect, and with these added features it's still an imperfect system. I can't devise a perfect system, but this one definitely can be improved."

Hyde- I know Ripken was voted as a starter, so I hope you're not trying to include me in the group of people who believe he was a honarly all-star.
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Postby sinicalypse » Sat Jul 12, 2003 11:00 am

to disclaim myself, i'm not a big clemens supporter, if at all. i grow tired of the guy being one of the 'big stars' in the game when he's just a solid upper 1/2 3.75-4 ERA pitcher with a big number of Ks. perhaps i don't have that intrigue with him since i got into baseball in '01, but whatever the case, he's just not all-star quality. i always think that all-stars ideally should be having some kind of a special or just monster season to get elected, not just picking guys perennially because they've amassed 300 career wins. fox had him in all those dumb commercialls with a hard look before the "THIS TIME IT COUNTS" barrage, and i'm so glad that part of their advertising has been foiled by fans and coaches with common sense.
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