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BB vs OPS

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BB vs OPS

Postby wcwcheng » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:32 pm

Right now we have BB and CG for extra categories in a h2h. I am trying to have him change BB to OPS. I think CG is a stupid category but what other catgories would be good besides holds? What are the advantages over OPS vs BB?
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Postby nuggets » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:47 pm

OPS would be a much better stat than BB. As far as pitching goes, I like these options: a rate stat like BB/K, CG and SHO and/or innings pitched and total bases.
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Postby The Jury » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:48 pm

What are the other categories you're using? If it's 5v5 + those 2 cats, then OPS on top of average is a little redundant, IMO. I would use AVG and BB, or OPS and something else for hitters.

CG is very random in roto or H2H.. it may be fun in a points only league.
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Postby wcwcheng » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:56 pm

Its traditional 5x5 plus BB and CG's for a H2H league.
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Postby Matthias » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:57 pm

i think bb as an isolated statistic is silly because i really can't say what attribute it is measuring.... capacity to take pitches?

when used with avg it measures how frugal you are with your team's outs, which is meaningful. but seperated out.... that means a .350 hitter with a .030 walk rate is bad? or someone who hits .100 but has a .150 walk rate is good?

i went through this dilemma in my league and finally said forget it and used both avg and obp. because they are slightly different and there are players who excel in one but not both. and it's not like hr/r/rbi don't have any auto-correlation.
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Postby nuggets » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:07 pm

Matthias wrote:i think bb as an isolated statistic is silly because i really can't say what attribute it is measuring.... capacity to take pitches?.


The latest studies indicate BB rate comes from power (along with a good eye) and therefore respect from the pitchers, i.e. Juan Pierre gets more pitches in the zone compard to Manny Ramirez.
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Postby Matthias » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:10 pm

nuggets wrote:
Matthias wrote:i think bb as an isolated statistic is silly because i really can't say what attribute it is measuring.... capacity to take pitches?.


The latest studies indicate BB rate comes from power (along with a good eye) and therefore respect from the pitchers, i.e. Juan Pierre gets more pitches in the zone compard to Manny Ramirez.


yah. i read baseball prospectus 2006, too.

but still, in a baseball sense... what are you measuring? nothing really. a single that didn't get recorded. as i said, stand-alone: non-sensical.
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Postby nuggets » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:25 pm

Matthias wrote:
nuggets wrote:
Matthias wrote:i think bb as an isolated statistic is silly because i really can't say what attribute it is measuring.... capacity to take pitches?.


The latest studies indicate BB rate comes from power (along with a good eye) and therefore respect from the pitchers, i.e. Juan Pierre gets more pitches in the zone compard to Manny Ramirez.


but still, in a baseball sense... what are you measuring? nothing really. a single that didn't get recorded. as i said, stand-alone: non-sensical.


BB measures power and eye. How many of these guys aren't high quality hitters?
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Postby Matthias » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:33 pm

nuggets wrote:
Matthias wrote:
nuggets wrote:
Matthias wrote:i think bb as an isolated statistic is silly because i really can't say what attribute it is measuring.... capacity to take pitches?.


The latest studies indicate BB rate comes from power (along with a good eye) and therefore respect from the pitchers, i.e. Juan Pierre gets more pitches in the zone compard to Manny Ramirez.


but still, in a baseball sense... what are you measuring? nothing really. a single that didn't get recorded. as i said, stand-alone: non-sensical.


BB measures power and eye. How many of these guys aren't high quality hitters?


great. so do eye exams and bench presses. but those aren't used as fantasy baseball stats.

separated from average, the statistic doesn't have a holistic meaning in the same way that many other statistics do. HR means you cleared the bases. RBIs measure how many people you brought across the base with that. Rs means how many times you crossed the base yourself. even the less traditional, sabermetric stats, like runs created, have a MEANING: how many extra runs did your team score for having you in their lineup versus a replacement level player. isolated walks don't have the same type of underlying meaning.

so i wouldn't use it as a stat.
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Postby nuggets » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:37 pm

Matthias wrote:great. so do eye exams and bench presses. but those aren't used as fantasy baseball stats.

Lol, that eye and power seems to have a decent correlation to quality of hitter.

Matthias wrote:separated from average, the statistic doesn't have a holistic meaning in the same way that many other statistics do. HR means you cleared the bases. RBIs measure how many people you brought across the base with that. Rs means how many times you crossed the base yourself. even the less traditional, sabermetric stats, like runs created, have a MEANING: how many extra runs did your team score for having you in their lineup versus a replacement level player. isolated walks don't have the same type of underlying meaning.

so i wouldn't use it as a stat.


Neither would I, unless paired with K. It does measure some sort of quality, but not as well as OPS or RC does, that's for sure. Do any providers offer RC/27 as a roto stat? That would be sweeet.
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