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Statheads or Do You Know The Game? (Question For All)

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Postby pdap100281 » Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:57 am

LCBOY wrote:"Stat Head" views

1) BA is overrated, OBP much more valuable
2) I read all of Bill James' books
3) Sabermetrics is the future
4) My list of way overrated players: Helton, Jeter, Soriano, Abreu, Ichiro
5) My list of underrated players: B. Boone, Sexton, Jason Giambi, Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome
6) I prefer H2H vs roto
7) I enjoyed Moneyball, I hope Jeremy Brown becomes an All-Star so he can tell all the scouts that said he sucked to "shove it!"


ICHIRO OVERATTED? YOU ARE CRAZY. THE GUY CAN HIT ANY PITCH AT ANY COUNT TO ANY PART OF THE BALLPARK INCLUDING OVER THE FENCE. THE GUY IS CAPABLE OF 30+ HOMERS A YEAR! ALSO HE POSTED THE HIGHEST AVERAGE WITH RUNNERS IN SCORING POSITION OF ALL TIME! AND HOW MANY GUYS ARE RUNNING OUT INFIELD SINGLES, STEALING 2ND AND THEN 3RD IN TODAYS GAME??? AND HOW MANY OF THEM HAVE THE STRONGEST AND MOST ACCURATE ARM IN THE GAME!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? MAYBE A GUY LIKE VLADE CAN THROW FARTHER BUT NO ONE COMBINES BOTH ARM STRENGTH AND ACCURACY AT A HIGHER LEVEL THAN ICHIRO, NOT TO MENTION HIS OFFENSIVE SKILLS.
Last edited by pdap100281 on Mon Jul 07, 2003 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Guest » Mon Jul 07, 2003 4:18 am

I don't understand this.. why is laying down a bunt to break up a no-hitter considered bad? I don't see players regularly laying a bunt down in real games because it's likely they'll get thrown out at first. Wouldn't the same be true in a no-hitter situation? It's an easy out for the pitcher!!
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Postby DGroundhog » Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:08 am

I'm a sports fan. I followed my Twins, then started playing fantasy baseball basically to increase my interest in baseball in general. Before fantasy sports, I could have cared less about watching any other team. Now I have interest in even the D-Rays games because I have Huff.

...and if bunting to get a guy on is going to help you win a game, I'm gonna tell my player to do it every time. I'm not out there competing to give the pitcher a free pass to glory. I'm trying to win, and I'm going to give it my best shot with everything at my disposal. If you no-hit me, I tip my cap to you.

I would expect the same out of my opponent and feel a bit cheated if anything less than their best attempt to win (or to solely break up my bid for glory) was given.
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Postby wrveres » Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:11 am

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this.. why is laying down a bunt to break up a no-hitter considered bad? I don't see players regularly laying a bunt down in real games because it's likely they'll get thrown out at first. Wouldn't the same be true in a no-hitter situation? It's an easy out for the pitcher!!


well generally the defense is playing back. If you can just get it passed the pitcher, and have enogh speed, you never know. The idea is to get the defense playing back, which is generally where they are when there is no one on base. It is considered cheap. Another unwritten rule of baseball of old. I thought it was solid.
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Postby LCBOY » Mon Jul 07, 2003 1:32 pm

ICHIRO OVERATTED? YOU ARE CRAZY. THE GUY CAN HIT ANY PITCH AT ANY COUNT TO ANY PART OF THE BALLPARK INCLUDING OVER THE FENCE. THE GUY IS CAPABLE OF 30+ HOMERS A YEAR! ALSO HE POSTED THE HIGHEST AVERAGE WITH RUNNERS IN SCORING POSITION OF ALL TIME! AND HOW MANY GUYS ARE RUNNING OUT INFIELD SINGLES, STEALING 2ND AND THEN 3RD IN TODAYS GAME??? AND HOW MANY OF THEM HAVE THE STRONGEST AND MOST ACCURATE ARM IN THE GAME!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? MAYBE A GUY LIKE VLADE CAN THROW FARTHER BUT NO ONE COMBINES BOTH ARM STRENGTH AND ACCURACY AT A HIGHER LEVEL THAN ICHIRO, NOT TO MENTION HIS OFFENSIVE SKILLS.


OK, let's look at "offensive skills". Right now Ichiro is batting .349/.388/.467. The .349 BA is great, his OBP is mearly good. A leadoff hitter should ideally have an OBP over .400. His .467 SLG% is low for a corner outfielder. If he is capable of hitting 30 HRs a year then why doesn't he? On what EVIDENCE did you base this assertion? His career high in Japan is only 27. His career OPS is only .832. That is very low. An All-Star Outfielder should have a much higher OPS.

Here are the starting six outfielders with their OPS, for the All-Star game


Barry Bonds 1162
Albert Pujols 1138
Gary Sheffield 1126
Manny Ramirez 1003
Ichiro Suzuki 855
Hideki Matsui 838

Now, what is wrong with this picture?

He does play great defense and and have a great arm. His 2001 MPV was a mistake. Jiambi should have won it. Don't get me wrong I like Ichiro but he is overrated. He is basically a better Brett Butler...
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Postby Madison » Mon Jul 07, 2003 1:40 pm

On the original question: I'd say I'm a little of both. Huge baseball fan. I watch as many games as possible. I also play with the stats for a few hours.
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Postby quickfingerz » Mon Jul 07, 2003 1:42 pm

I have to post here because I DO NOT WATCH BASEBALL

I do watch it sometimes when I go to the gym with the lady and I get placed on a cardio machine. Good way to kill time on the machine.

I'd take FoodTV over a World Series Game 7 between the Yankees and Dodgers where in every game a player was ejected.

But VERY few people top me in fantasy baseball in highly active leagues.
The key to Fantasy Sports is NOT about Sports but rather the "manipulation of numbers" in your favor

MASTER THOSE NUMBERS
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Postby timkell » Mon Jul 07, 2003 4:11 pm

I won't bite on the Ichiro talk, but I would say this one on LCBOY's list:
2) Return to the four man rotation

should be under the "stat head" column.

Baseball Prospectus, the most Sybermetric-centric website out there, recently had a two part article analyzing the four man rotation. They're all for it. They analyzed the data and showed that, in their opinion, pitch counts, not days between starts, are the real cause of pitcher injuries.

The best example they used was Pedro. From '99 to 2001, the Sox tried to give Pedro five days between starts as often as possible. It didn't work because they still let him pitch up to 130 pitches per start. Now that they've switched to monitoring his pitch count as well, he's returned to his dominating self, and he's managed to stay more healthy in the last two years. Interesting articles.

Part 1: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/ ... ring.shtml

Part 2: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/ ... ring.shtml
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Postby LCBOY » Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:49 pm

="wrveres
poor Helton. :,-(


Sorry, but here are Helton's career home/road numbers per 162 games:

R------H-----2B---3B---HR----RBI----BB----K----AVE----OBP---SLG
147---221---51---4---43----149---92---65---.377---.461---.699
86----162---42----2----28----96---80---91---.287---.386---.515

Guess which stats are Helton's home numbers?

At home he hits like Lou Gehrig and on the road he hits like Ryan Klesko. If Helton played at Pac Bell, or Dodger Stadium, or Oakland, would he ever start an All-Star game. Just a thought...
Last edited by LCBOY on Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:40 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Postby LCBOY » Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:51 pm

timkell wrote:I won't bite on the Ichiro talk, but I would say this one on LCBOY's list:
2) Return to the four man rotation

should be under the "stat head" column.

Baseball Prospectus, the most Sybermetric-centric website out there, recently had a two part article analyzing the four man rotation. They're all for it. They analyzed the data and showed that, in their opinion, pitch counts, not days between starts, are the real cause of pitcher injuries.

The best example they used was Pedro. From '99 to 2001, the Sox tried to give Pedro five days between starts as often as possible. It didn't work because they still let him pitch up to 130 pitches per start. Now that they've switched to monitoring his pitch count as well, he's returned to his dominating self, and he's managed to stay more healthy in the last two years. Interesting articles.

Part 1: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/ ... ring.shtml

Part 2: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/ ... ring.shtml


Good question. If a team does it, it proabably will not be for sabermetric reasons, but the Earl Weaver reason, "It's easier to find four good pitchers than five good pitchers."
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