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Postby ironman » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:44 pm

PlayingWithFire wrote:what if it's with 1 week left to play and there is nothing more than the difference between 10th or 9th place in it for the non-contender? :-?


Why wouldn't you have a trade deadline set?
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Postby dannahann » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:46 pm

This is VERY confusing? If there is no deadline (or the deadline hasn't hit yet, then why not allow a FAIR trade?? I mean is there a consolation bracket or can the "non contending" team possibly move into the playoffs? Or could he be trying to finish out of the cellar, or mid pack vs bottom 1/3?? I mean WHY can't that guy try to improve as well? And for those griping it isn't fair for the contender to benefit....SAY WHAT??? Isn't that the point?
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:52 pm

ironman wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:what if it's with 1 week left to play and there is nothing more than the difference between 10th or 9th place in it for the non-contender? :-?


Why wouldn't you have a trade deadline set?


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Postby Matthias » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:52 pm

dannahann wrote:This is VERY confusing? If there is no deadline (or the deadline hasn't hit yet, then why not allow a FAIR trade?? I mean is there a consolation bracket or can the "non contending" team possibly move into the playoffs? Or could he be trying to finish out of the cellar, or mid pack vs bottom 1/3?? I mean WHY can't that guy try to improve as well? And for those griping it isn't fair for the contender to benefit....SAY WHAT??? Isn't that the point?


because even if the trade is on paper not so bad that people can legimiately scream bloody murder, it may be a trade that someone would not necessarily do if they were still playing competitively. and are doing it out of a motivation of trying to help their buddy rather than helping their own team.

i mean, honestly, how much improvement is a guy in last place, one week before the playoffs, going to make? most likely they're in last place because they don't give a damn and haven't given a damn all season and now their friend suggests a trade and says, "whatever" and takes it.

is this what HAS to happen or what MUST be the explanation? no. but is it possible? absolutely. and without further facts, i don't think you can just wash it away with a, "well, the trade otherwise looked fair" kind of argument.
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Postby dannahann » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:00 pm

Matthias wrote:
dannahann wrote:This is VERY confusing? If there is no deadline (or the deadline hasn't hit yet, then why not allow a FAIR trade?? I mean is there a consolation bracket or can the "non contending" team possibly move into the playoffs? Or could he be trying to finish out of the cellar, or mid pack vs bottom 1/3?? I mean WHY can't that guy try to improve as well? And for those griping it isn't fair for the contender to benefit....SAY WHAT??? Isn't that the point?


because even if the trade is on paper not so bad that people can legimiately scream bloody murder, it may be a trade that someone would not necessarily do if they were still playing competitively. and are doing it out of a motivation of trying to help their buddy rather than helping their own team.

i mean, honestly, how much improvement is a guy in last place, one week before the playoffs, going to make? most likely they're in last place because they don't give a damn and haven't given a damn all season and now their friend suggests a trade and says, "whatever" and takes it.

is this what HAS to happen or what MUST be the explanation? no. but is it possible? absolutely. and without further facts, i don't think you can just wash it away with a, "well, the trade otherwise looked fair" kind of argument.

You're make a bunch of assumptions here, I was simply asking questions. I never saw where he said the team was last (and even if he is if there's a consolation braket OR he can gain a cople slots in the standings then WHY can't that guy get better?? I agree if it's collusive and there's no intention to improve, it's wrong (and it's wrong ANYTIME of the season) but he didn't mention that was the case. Hence I asked....rather than assume.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:33 pm

The only reward(other than the spirit of the game) I can think of is the possibility that he'll get a higher say in draft position next year. It was proposed that we make it a keeper next year and the final standing determines your draft position(for example, if the champion wants the 5th pick in a 12 teams snake draft. Then the 2nd place team pick their draft place. etc.)
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Postby dannahann » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:16 pm

PlayingWithFire wrote:The only reward(other than the spirit of the game) I can think of is the possibility that he'll get a higher say in draft position next year. It was proposed that we make it a keeper next year and the final standing determines your draft position(for example, if the champion wants the 5th pick in a 12 teams snake draft. Then the 2nd place team pick their draft place. etc.)

Well then there IS something for him to trade for then. No matter how small that payoff is, that's ALL he has left so he should be awarded the opportunity to pursue it IMO. Hat's off to him for trying to scrape a little positive out of his dissapointing season ;-D
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Postby Matthias » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:35 pm

dannahann wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:The only reward(other than the spirit of the game) I can think of is the possibility that he'll get a higher say in draft position next year. It was proposed that we make it a keeper next year and the final standing determines your draft position(for example, if the champion wants the 5th pick in a 12 teams snake draft. Then the 2nd place team pick their draft place. etc.)

Well then there IS something for him to trade for then. No matter how small that payoff is, that's ALL he has left so he should be awarded the opportunity to pursue it IMO. Hat's off to him for trying to scrape a little positive out of his dissapointing season ;-D


no way. the possibility of having something to play for doesn't make it completely legit. why you guys stretch yourselves so far to arrive at the conclusion that every trade ever made is completely ok is really beyond me.

but let's place this in context:
(a) how many trades has this guy done this season?
(b) before this last one, when was the previous?
(c) how many waiver pickups has he made?
(d) were there any weeks, particularly recently, where his lineup didn't make any sense / it looked like he wasn't paying much attention to the league?
(e) does he know and/or is particularly good friends with the person who is in contention?
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Postby Matthias » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:40 pm

dannahann wrote:This is VERY confusing? If there is no deadline (or the deadline hasn't hit yet, then why not allow a FAIR trade?? I mean is there a consolation bracket or can the "non contending" team possibly move into the playoffs? Or could he be trying to finish out of the cellar, or mid pack vs bottom 1/3?? I mean WHY can't that guy try to improve as well? And for those griping it isn't fair for the contender to benefit....SAY WHAT??? Isn't that the point?


dannahann wrote:You're make a bunch of assumptions here, I was simply asking questions. I never saw where he said the team was last (and even if he is if there's a consolation braket OR he can gain a cople slots in the standings then WHY can't that guy get better?? I agree if it's collusive and there's no intention to improve, it's wrong (and it's wrong ANYTIME of the season) but he didn't mention that was the case. Hence I asked....rather than assume.


no. your questions above were basically arguments as to why anyone would have any problem with it. and i gave reasons why someone could have a problem with it. and why it could be less than legit.

and NOBODY ever makes a trade and says, "oh, by the way, this is collusion." NOBODY. EVER. you have to infer collusion by the surrounding circumstances. and in a situation where one person has very little, if anything, to gain and the other person has a large interest in the outcome then you start asking additional questions as to the trade motivations. if you don't do that, then you'll never find collusion and amazingly, you'll never have any problem with any trade.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:09 pm

Matthias wrote:
dannahann wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:The only reward(other than the spirit of the game) I can think of is the possibility that he'll get a higher say in draft position next year. It was proposed that we make it a keeper next year and the final standing determines your draft position(for example, if the champion wants the 5th pick in a 12 teams snake draft. Then the 2nd place team pick their draft place. etc.)

Well then there IS something for him to trade for then. No matter how small that payoff is, that's ALL he has left so he should be awarded the opportunity to pursue it IMO. Hat's off to him for trying to scrape a little positive out of his dissapointing season ;-D


no way. the possibility of having something to play for doesn't make it completely legit. why you guys stretch yourselves so far to arrive at the conclusion that every trade ever made is completely ok is really beyond me.

but let's place this in context:
(a) how many trades has this guy done this season?
(b) before this last one, when was the previous?
(c) how many waiver pickups has he made?
(d) were there any weeks, particularly recently, where his lineup didn't make any sense / it looked like he wasn't paying much attention to the league?
(e) does he know and/or is particularly good friends with the person who is in contention?


a) four before this one
b) a month ago
c) 11 total moves in the year
d) he just beat a playoff contender last week
e) did make a lot of trade with that particular guy, no collution though now I see them
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