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Postby The Cow » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:47 am

It can be a problem if say the contender need saves and grabs two closers from his buddy for two players that the contender does not need. I mean if there is collusion then there is a problem. Tough to prove though and can cause huge headaches. IMO the guys out of it should play fair. Let the guys who are in the race go at it. Now if its a keeper and the guy in last is getting a keeper then no problem. But yeah if there are two weeks left and some "buddy" deal goes down its just not right.
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Postby The Jury » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:51 am

Steve-o wrote:
The Jury wrote:I would lean towards barring mathematically eliminated teams from making trades with contending teams.

When one has nothing to play for, there is little incentive for some managers to care about their teams anymore. When people don't care, there is an increased risk of vetoable trades, or worse, trades are aren't vetoable but definitely lopsided.


That's just plain BS. Maybe you think you have nothing to play for if you are out of it, but I completely disagree. I will never, ever, finish in the bottom third in one of my leagues. No matter what it takes.

By barring teams that people think are out you are seriously reducing the competitiveness of your league. By preventing certain teams from making moves you are creating the exact situation that you warn of. People wont care when the commish tells them that they are no longer allowed to make any moves. In fact, you should strive to find people in your league who have enough pride to do whatever they can to not finish lower in the rankings.

This boils down to having a decent veto system in place in your league. Learn to abide by it. Or put in a trade deadline.


I did not say this was my viewpoint. I am looking at it objectively - someone may see little to play for if he/she is mathematically eliminted. From that view, there is 1 winner and, for example, 9 losers in a 10-team league.

I never finished last because I always field a competitive team, but I couldn't care less whether I finish second or fifth - either way I don't get a title to add to my "resume."

I was thinking about it and I realized that yeah, the reason we don't have this issue in our league is that 1) everyone is competitive, but more importantly 2) we have a trade deadline in place set at an appropriate date. IMO, that is the best way to go.
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Re: fantasy ethic question

Postby Ajax » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:57 am

PlayingWithFire wrote:What would you think if in a non-keeper.

A contender is making a (fair) trade with a mathmatically eliminated team at the end of the year?


I'd thank the manager of the mathematically eliminated team for sticking it out till the bitter end.

In my opinion, a "non-contender" shouldn't automatically become a "non-player". Because, that's just silly.
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Postby thedude » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:40 am

The Jury wrote:
thedude wrote:
Madison wrote:Maybe because the non-contender doesn't want to finish last?

Maybe because the non-contender wants to stay active and participate until the end, like a true competitor?

Maybe because the non-contender understand that having dead teams, or teams give up before it's over, really stinks?


my sentiments exactly.


It depends on the experience or commitment level of the managers. The good ones will play to the end, but if you get some less enthusiastic ones who don't really care, then that can ruin the league.


Well of it doesn't matter how euthastic they are if they trade is fair. I find it hard to beilve that any "fair trade" (which was what the orginal pster specified) can ruin a league no matter the situation of the teams involved.
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Postby Matthias » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:26 am

thedude wrote:Well of it doesn't matter how euthastic they are if they trade is fair. I find it hard to beilve that any "fair trade" (which was what the orginal pster specified) can ruin a league no matter the situation of the teams involved.


sure it can. a team vying for second place who has HRs, Rs, and RBIs locked up but behind in SVs trades his buddy Manny & Miggie for four closers. what this comes down to is that even though trades may be, "fair" there will be some teams with a greater incentive to improve their teams in certain areas and other teams that just don't give a damn. "huh? manny and miggie? yah. whatever. pass the fritos." because even though ya'll keep saying, "Oh, well I would never give up on my team!!! And I'll kill anyone who stops me!!!" the truth of the matter is that in many leagues, there are teams that are either dead or just on life support. And if all of a sudden one of these inactive teams does a deal with only a week left in the season... I'd wonder why. And I'd probably veto it on suspected collusion. If they've been dealing and making moves and keeping their rosters up to date the whole time, then sure. Whatever. But if not... it's a fishy move.

The obvious solution to this is a trading deadline early enough into the season that players still care enough about their teams that this won't happen.

And this is no more an ethic question than it is an ethnic question. It's just a question of how to run a league. And letting players trade one week before the end of the season is a poor way to do it.
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Postby jsphlly » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:47 pm

The Loveable Losers wrote:I don't see anything wrong with it. If people are uncomfortable with it then put in a trading deadline now...otherwise just let it go.


I agree. Trade Deadline = Good.
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Postby The Jury » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:53 pm

thedude wrote:
The Jury wrote:
thedude wrote:
Madison wrote:Maybe because the non-contender doesn't want to finish last?

Maybe because the non-contender wants to stay active and participate until the end, like a true competitor?

Maybe because the non-contender understand that having dead teams, or teams give up before it's over, really stinks?


my sentiments exactly.


It depends on the experience or commitment level of the managers. The good ones will play to the end, but if you get some less enthusiastic ones who don't really care, then that can ruin the league.


Well of it doesn't matter how euthastic they are if they trade is fair. I find it hard to beilve that any "fair trade" (which was what the orginal pster specified) can ruin a league no matter the situation of the teams involved.


There are 3 primary categories for trades. There are fair, apparently dead even trades given team situations, and there are vetoable trades.

Then there's a grey area - trades that aren't really fair, that as a non-participant in the trade, you don't really like, but it's got SOME validity to it and thus should not be vetoed. An example would for a trade of two very good players - the consensus being that one of the is better than the other, but both are very good.

It's these shady trades that can ruin a league.
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Postby Jackie Treehorn » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:16 pm

Thriller wrote:Would you be upset if you were the team still in contention and he was trading with you?

This is why leagues place trade deadlines. It prevents a fire sale to the contenders at the end of the season.

If your league does not have a deadline in place, then what they are doing is fully within the rules.


I think this about sums it up. If there is a debate in your league about whether or not these trades are ok, then institute a trade deadline. Problem solved. If your league has no guidelines surrounding these types of trades, then no one should be able to complain about them, assuming, as you say, that the trade is "fair".
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Postby JakeTrain72 » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:48 pm

If it is a keeper league then why the hell not? In our league you can trade draft picks to improve yourself the following year. Makes winning the league tough as hell and allows the eliminated teams a chance to improve their team.

Now we do have a deadline so it isn't too close to the end of the year and the trades need to be fair or face a veto from the others in the league. We won't allow a team to scrap its top players to four different teams for 4 first round picks though (you limit the amount of first round and second round picks a team can have, then trades don't become equal with lesser round picks).

In the end it makes for very interesting times at the trade deadline and keeps competition high in current and next season.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:28 pm

note that it's 1 week before the playoff in a H2H, not the end of the season
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