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Postby Ender » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:17 am

BillyHallDisciple wrote:It's the WBC, not Spring Training. The level of competition is a little higher.


No its actually worse than spring training. In ST at least you are playing almost every day instead of half time like the US. The US hitters in general look terrible out there, they simply are not in baseball form at all right now. They had 4 hitters on the whole team that hit well and everyone else was just off. The level of competition has absolutely nothing to do with being ready or not, if your timing is off you simply need repitition to fix it, something the US did not give its players in the WBC.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:43 am

Ender wrote:
BillyHallDisciple wrote:It's the WBC, not Spring Training. The level of competition is a little higher.


No its actually worse than spring training. In ST at least you are playing almost every day instead of half time like the US. The US hitters in general look terrible out there, they simply are not in baseball form at all right now. They had 4 hitters on the whole team that hit well and everyone else was just off. The level of competition has absolutely nothing to do with being ready or not, if your timing is off you simply need repitition to fix it, something the US did not give its players in the WBC.


The lack of preparation shows how seriously US was taking this toruney. Explains why they lost to freaking Mexico.
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Postby BillyHallDisciple » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:47 am

I just don't think people cut OP the same slack as they cut other pitchers. If Halladay goes out and gives up 7 runs and walks 4 batters in 3 IP, he's just getting his throws in, warming up for the season... but if Perez does it, he might as well hang him up according to some of his critics in this thread.

Dude would have to pitch a freakin' no-hitter for some folks to be satisfied.
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Postby Ender » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:52 am


The lack of preparation shows how seriously US was taking this toruney. Explains why they lost to freaking Mexico.


Yeah I agree, if the US really wants to win this thing next time they need to be dedicated to a single lineup like the other teams and they need to get that lineup ready in advance instead of going into this like its spring training. I don't know if it will ever happen though.

As for Perez, I have nothing against the guy. I was just responding to your remark that his game against the US was meaningful. They have looked terrible against almost every pitcher, not just perez. I don't think Perez is going to have the big year his supporters expect out of him, but I don't think he'll be as bad as last year either.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:53 am

BillyHallDisciple wrote:I just don't think people cut OP the same slack as they cut other pitchers. If Halladay goes out and gives up 7 runs and walks 4 batters in 3 IP, he's just getting his throws in, warming up for the season... but if Perez does it, he might as well hang him up according to some of his critics in this thread.

Dude would have to pitch a freakin' no-hitter for some folks to be satisfied.


Not necessarily. Until Ollie shows the similar control over a sustained period of time which he managed in 2004, I have serious doubts he is back. Plus his velocity is down which is a concern.
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Postby BillyHallDisciple » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:55 am

Maybe he doesn't want to strain his shoulder, maybe wants to bring it up to speed. Do guys throw top-speed in ST, I'm not sure?

Sheets' velocity is down too (thx to injury of course, but OP is coming off injury too)...
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Postby rainman23 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:41 pm

BillyHallDisciple wrote:I just don't think people cut OP the same slack as they cut other pitchers. If Halladay goes out and gives up 7 runs and walks 4 batters in 3 IP, he's just getting his throws in, warming up for the season... but if Perez does it, he might as well hang him up according to some of his critics in this thread.

Dude would have to pitch a freakin' no-hitter for some folks to be satisfied.


I'm not sure that would do it. We'd need to know how many walks he gave up...
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Postby TurdFerguson » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:46 pm

BillyHallDisciple wrote:Maybe he doesn't want to strain his shoulder, maybe wants to bring it up to speed. Do guys throw top-speed in ST, I'm not sure?

Sheets' velocity is down too (thx to injury of course, but OP is coming off injury too)...
His velocity is not down this like ST for him his pitched 4inn so far.He is just trying to build up arm strength and saw many pithers in the WBC not throwing that hard.The guy is 23 or 24 I think his critics are just the people that drafted him last year and got burned.We will see
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Postby Yoda » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:26 pm

TurdFerguson wrote:
BillyHallDisciple wrote:Maybe he doesn't want to strain his shoulder, maybe wants to bring it up to speed. Do guys throw top-speed in ST, I'm not sure?

Sheets' velocity is down too (thx to injury of course, but OP is coming off injury too)...
His velocity is not down this like ST for him his pitched 4inn so far.He is just trying to build up arm strength and saw many pithers in the WBC not throwing that hard.The guy is 23 or 24 I think his critics are just the people that drafted him last year and got burned.We will see


I'm not a critic nor did I have Ollie in 2005. I am very neutral towards him and until he shows the same control and velocity, I don't see how you can expect him to come anywhere near 2004. This is very simple analysis of a pitcher who has a lot of talent but is inconsistent and has immense control problems.
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Postby The Jury » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:35 pm

Yoda wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
BillyHallDisciple wrote:Maybe he doesn't want to strain his shoulder, maybe wants to bring it up to speed. Do guys throw top-speed in ST, I'm not sure?

Sheets' velocity is down too (thx to injury of course, but OP is coming off injury too)...
His velocity is not down this like ST for him his pitched 4inn so far.He is just trying to build up arm strength and saw many pithers in the WBC not throwing that hard.The guy is 23 or 24 I think his critics are just the people that drafted him last year and got burned.We will see


I'm not a critic nor did I have Ollie in 2005. I am very neutral towards him and until he shows the same control and velocity, I don't see how you can expect him to come anywhere near 2004. This is very simple analysis of a pitcher who has a lot of talent but is inconsistent and has immense control problems.


Same.

If Halladay throws 4 walks in a ST game, it's fine because he has shown that he does not have control issues. If OP throws a high number of walks, we have to look at it because he has shown that he is inconsistent with his control, which will make or break him.
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