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Postby RynMan » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:50 am

Go Australia!!!



Ah, who am I kidding. :,-(
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Postby AcidRock23 » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:23 am

number9 wrote: The bizarre format sucks though, as all the strong Caribbean sides have to fight eachother for one spot in the final, even though they could very easily have the finals amongst themselves. I guess MLB reckons that would be ratings and popularity suicide.


I think that they are actually doing it FOR ratings...in Asia, where I suspect (although I've not seen any documentation on this...) that there's probably quite a bit of interest. Ichiro made some comment quoted recently to the effect that he's very pleased to be playing a game that MEANS something unlike last year w/ the Mariners.
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Postby Laean » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:42 am

most countries in Asia don't like Japan due to the WWII atrocities it committed on them and the ongoing attitude of ethnic superiority that Japan feels over other Asians.

it's a complicated cultural rivalry/resentments/etc issue that's much deeper than just baseball. that's why a technically meaningless game meant so much to the two countries.

In "You Got to Have Wa," an excellent book about American major leaguers that played in Japan for a while and their experiences of culture shock, etc, there was this one part about how the ultimate insult to a Japanese person was to call him Korean. so this one American player (i forget his name) who felt he was getting shafted by the ump calling balls and strikes would cuss out the ump but it wouldn't have much effect. so one day, his translator told him what to say to the ump next time he struck out. so the next time he struck out, that player, while walking back to the dugout muttered to himself (just loud enough for the ump to hear) "lousy Korean" which instantly offended the ump to the point of the ump nearly losing it.

there was also an article on SI.com or MSNBC.com that talked about how a lot of professional baseball players in Japan aren't playing in the WBC because they are secretly of Korean origin if you go back several generations.

it's just a big ridiculous complicated thing over there.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:43 am

Laean wrote:most countries in Asia don't like Japan due to the WWII atrocities it committed on them and the ongoing attitude of ethnic superiority that Japan feels over other Asians.

it's just a big ridiculous complicated thing over there.


I wouldn't call it ridiculous, the Japanese 'Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere' was right up there w/ 'advanced' European governemnental agencies of the 20th century like the Gestapo and NKVD. MrsAcidRock is Korean, BTW and my father in law was one of the 50,000 ROK troops who served in Vietnam, FWIW...

Japanese Author Haruki Murakami has an interesting vignette in one of his novels where some Chinese prisoners kill a Japanese guard w/ a baseball bat and are executed w/ the same bat. 8-o
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Postby Laean » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:46 am

AcidRock23 wrote:
Laean wrote:most countries in Asia don't like Japan due to the WWII atrocities it committed on them and the ongoing attitude of ethnic superiority that Japan feels over other Asians.

it's just a big ridiculous complicated thing over there.


I wouldn't call it ridiculous, the Japanese 'Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere' was right up there w/ 'advanced' European governemnental agencies of the 20th century like the Gestapo and NKVD. MrsAcidRock is Korean, BTW and my father in law was one of the 50,000 ROK troops who served in Vietnam, FWIW...

Japanese Author Haruki Murakami has an interesting vignette in one of his novels where some Chinese prisoners kill a Japanese guard w/ a baseball bat and are executed w/ the same bat. 8-o


hey c'mon now. don't just take those 2 sentences out of the post i made and make it look like i was was saying the resentments/hurts that Koreans/Chinese/etc still feel is "ridiculous." there were 3 more paragraphs between those two lines you quoted.

by "ridiculous" i was referring to the still on-going cycle of racism (for the lack of a better word - nationalism doesn't quite do justice) in Japan and counter-hate in Korean and China, and how ridiculously complicated it was. i didn't mean to belittle any sufferings that Koreans/Chinese/etc went through. i mean, i'm Korean-American so ....
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Postby AcidRock23 » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:57 am

D'oh, sorry for getting all bogus and heavy. I was pleased the Koreans won though... ;-D
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Postby Laean » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:13 pm

AcidRock23 wrote:D'oh, sorry for getting all bogus and heavy. I was pleased the Koreans won though... ;-D


no problemo. i'm pleased about that victory too. :-)
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Postby number9 » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:23 am

[quote="Laean"]most countries in Asia don't like Japan due to the WWII atrocities it committed on them and the ongoing attitude of ethnic superiority that Japan feels over other Asians.
[/quote]
Let's don't go overboard here, it's only the Koreas and China that still mostly view Japan negatively, the rest of Asia has rather positive relations with Japan. Yes, Japan committed atrocities in Korea and China, but at the same time the Chinese and Korean media and education doesn't help in repairing relations either.
http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbcpoll06-3.html

And talking about institutional racism and societal racism, did you know that mixed race Koreans are not allowed to serve in the South Korean military? This means that they cannot get good jobs because military service is a prerequisite for many well paying positions in South Korea. So, mixed race Koreans who hold Korean passports are relagated to society's gutters.

Despite all the hatred and dislike on the surface, a lot of each other's pop culture is consumed in each country, and there's a lot of solid positive interactions on personal levels between the three countries, in spite of their respective governments behaviours.

Anyways, that was a great game, and the rematch in the 2nd round should be very meaningful, unless both Korea and Japan lose both their games to the US and Mexico/Canada.
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Postby nuggets » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:48 am

number9 wrote:And talking about institutional racism and societal racism, did you know that mixed race Koreans are not allowed to serve in the South Korean military?


Is that for National security purposes? Like we'd never let a half Canadian be Pres. :-b
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Postby Laean » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:53 am

number9 wrote:
Laean wrote:most countries in Asia don't like Japan due to the WWII atrocities it committed on them and the ongoing attitude of ethnic superiority that Japan feels over other Asians.

Let's don't go overboard here, it's only the Koreas and China that still mostly view Japan negatively, the rest of Asia has rather positive relations with Japan. Yes, Japan committed atrocities in Korea and China, but at the same time the Chinese and Korean media and education doesn't help in repairing relations either.
http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbcpoll06-3.html

And talking about institutional racism and societal racism, did you know that mixed race Koreans are not allowed to serve in the South Korean military? This means that they cannot get good jobs because military service is a prerequisite for many well paying positions in South Korea. So, mixed race Koreans who hold Korean passports are relagated to society's gutters.

Despite all the hatred and dislike on the surface, a lot of each other's pop culture is consumed in each country, and there's a lot of solid positive interactions on personal levels between the three countries, in spite of their respective governments behaviours.

Anyways, that was a great game, and the rematch in the 2nd round should be very meaningful, unless both Korea and Japan lose both their games to the US and Mexico/Canada.


Japan does similar things. i could go on and on about the negative stuff that Japan still does to this day to non-pureblood-Japanese in Japan, and like you said, about the stuff that Korea does as well, but my point wasn't to take any sides. my point was that it is a ridiculously complicated cycle/issue, and that the baseball game between Korea and Japan has to be looked with a broader focus to understand why both countries cared so much about a technically irrelevant game.
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