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NCAA limiting scholarships is counterproductive

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NCAA limiting scholarships is counterproductive

Postby Phatferd » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:38 pm

I think this is counterproductive. I understand trying to get universities to focus on academics, however, by taking away scholarships you are taking away opportunities for kids who will benefit from the scholarships.

Now a school will have a couple less scholarships (even 1 is a waste) so that last kid who would have been offered a scholarship will now have to pay for his education somewhere else and we all know a lot of these kids don't have the money to do that.

We are punishing kids for not finishing school by preventing other kids from going. Just doesn't make sense to me.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2349787
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Postby RugbyD » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:47 pm

The way I read it they are taking away some of the ability of schools to give athletic scholarships to complete morons, which is a good thing, b/c if the schools hadn't been doing that, they wouldn't be in this situation. This doesn't stop schools from giving scholarships to deserving academic acheivers who can't afford tuition on their own.
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Postby Phatferd » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:52 pm

RugbyD wrote:The way I read it they are taking away some of the ability of schools to give athletic scholarships to complete morons, which is a good thing, b/c if the schools hadn't been doing that, they wouldn't be in this situation. This doesn't stop schools from giving scholarships to deserving academic acheivers who can't afford tuition on their own.


This is about athletes not the normal scholastic overachievers in HS. I am all for letting people in who come from financial hardships even if someone else may have done better in school. I am not saying the person who did better shouldn't be let in, but I think people who come from certain enviornments should be given an opportunity to better themselves and their families.

Why should a prospective student-athlete who has all intentions int he world to learn while at the school be punished because some kid before him decided to party and skip class?

It also equates players who leave early for other reasons, not just failing out.

One more thing, I don't think this will make a school turn around and give that extra scholarship to an academicly eligible student. A school has thousands of students who are turned down. They will more than likely just accept one of those they turn down and collect the tuition that the person is willing to pay or they will divide the money between thousand of students in financial aid, which would equate to small change.
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Postby RugbyD » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:44 pm

I would venture a guess that the problems of poor performance that these schools occur because these scholarships are given to athletes who have little or no intent or ability to be students. Not all of them of course, but the ones at the margin. If anything it is the school's fault that they have less scholarships to give out and they are the ones that should be receiving criticism, not the NCAA for trying to enforce some minimum of academic acheivement, which is what college is primarily for.
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Postby Madison » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:26 pm

RugbyD wrote:The way I read it they are taking away some of the ability of schools to give athletic scholarships to complete morons, which is a good thing, b/c if the schools hadn't been doing that, they wouldn't be in this situation. This doesn't stop schools from giving scholarships to deserving academic acheivers who can't afford tuition on their own.


Don't look now Rugby, but we agree on something. :-D ;-D

The NCAA is not at fault for a few colleges giving scholarships to those who can't make the grade. It's those particular school's fault. The kids should lose the scholarship, and so should the school. The kid can't cut the mustard, and the school was dumb enough to give that kid a scholarship. Neither one deserve it, so take it away.
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Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:36 pm

From what I can gather from that article it doesn't look like the schools will lose scholarships in general, just the sports teams. So if the basketball team usually has 13 scholarship athletes, and they lose two, those two can be given to a non-athlete to attend the school.
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Postby Phatferd » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:12 pm

Madison wrote:
RugbyD wrote:The way I read it they are taking away some of the ability of schools to give athletic scholarships to complete morons, which is a good thing, b/c if the schools hadn't been doing that, they wouldn't be in this situation. This doesn't stop schools from giving scholarships to deserving academic acheivers who can't afford tuition on their own.


Don't look now Rugby, but we agree on something. :-D ;-D

The NCAA is not at fault for a few colleges giving scholarships to those who can't make the grade. It's those particular school's fault. The kids should lose the scholarship, and so should the school. The kid can't cut the mustard, and the school was dumb enough to give that kid a scholarship. Neither one deserve it, so take it away.


You aren't seeing my point.

I don't care if a player gets kicked off a team for grades or out of school. What I have a problem with is preventing another person from ever going to a school because he is not given a scholarship because the athletic department now has 11 scholarships to offer, not 12.

I firmly believe that these schools will not turn around and use that scholarship for an acadmic student. The only reason they have scholarships allocated to athletes is because it draws revenue and pays for itself. Why would they give a scholarship to a regular Joe Schmo when they can just admit 1 extra person who they would have turned down and is willing to pay the money.

All this does is limit the amount of people being exposed to college and probably never will without this kind of chance. Let's use basketball as an example. Now that the NBA created a minimum age requirement kids don't have the option to go to the NBA. They must go to college and will leave early.

Even if you're a good student you can still leave early because millions of dollars are looking at you.

This is really beside the point. The point is that I feel we should give people opportunities (without taking qualified peoples away) that they normally would not have. By giving a HS kid a scholarship because he has a good jump shot is OK with me because if it weren't for that jump shot he would never even consider college. Now that he is in one and gets situated he may find it to be beneficial and actually become a success.

He may get in and not care and flunk out, but at least we as a society gave him the shot. You can come back and say well by letting him in someone else who would have done something productive was left out, but I say there are cases of the opposite as well. A lot of well qualified HS kids get into a college with scholarships and find drugs, alcohol and other things. They are independent for the first time in their life and they waste the opportunity.

What this rule does is limit those kinds of people.
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Postby RugbyD » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:26 pm

Ferd, you're justifying giving a scholarship to a non-student so he can become a pro athlete. That's not what college is for. The NBA age limit in no way requires that people attend college before playing pro ball. There are plenty of other leagues where skilled younger players can hone their skills before reaching the minimum age.
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Postby Phatferd » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:32 pm

RugbyD wrote:Ferd, you're justifying giving a scholarship to a non-student so he can become a pro athlete. That's not what college is for. The NBA age limit in no way requires that people attend college before playing pro ball. There are plenty of other leagues where skilled younger players can hone their skills before reaching the minimum age.


explan to me where I said that because that is the opposite of what I think...

All this does is limit the amount of people being exposed to college and probably never will without this kind of chance. Let's use basketball as an example. Now that the NBA created a minimum age requirement kids don't have the option to go to the NBA. They must go to college and will leave early.

Even if you're a good student you can still leave early because millions of dollars are looking at you.

This is really beside the point. The point is that I feel we should give people opportunities (without taking qualified peoples away) that they normally would not have. By giving a HS kid a scholarship because he has a good jump shot is OK with me because if it weren't for that jump shot he would never even consider college. Now that he is in one and gets situated he may find it to be beneficial and actually become a success.


Nowhere did I mention people going to school to become professional athletes. I used the NBA as an example because they force kids to go to college now. As I said, this is beside the point.

My argument is that 99% of college athletes will never play professional sports and most of these kids used sports as a tool to become something in life. I am afraid that a lot of kids will be left out of college who would have been exposed to it otherwise.

I feel that these kids once in college will then have the choice to make it productive and be successful in whatever it is they do (business, investments, or just good people) and contribute to society in a positive way.

Should we punish a 17 year old because he wanted to make millions for his family through basketball, even if they were a pipe dream or should we still give them a tool and opportunity and hope they make something else out of their talent by giving them the chance to go to college.
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Postby Madison » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:47 pm

Phatferd wrote:You aren't seeing my point.

I don't care if a player gets kicked off a team for grades or out of school. What I have a problem with is preventing another person from ever going to a school because he is not given a scholarship because the athletic department now has 11 scholarships to offer, not 12.


Sorry man, but you're preaching to the wrong choir. College is for higher education purposes, with sports being totally secondary in my eyes. Personaly, I'd love to see colleges do away completely with athletic scholarships, and make them all academic based, but that's just me.
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