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Postby Simulacrum » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:13 pm

Dan Lambskin wrote:Waters/Gilmour are probably my favorite

i really like Bowie too


Stupid oversight on my part not to mention Waters/Gilmour. I sure do love the Floyd. ;-D

Bowie's all right, haven't listened to too much... the stuff I've heard sounds a lot like Pink Floyd actually. :-?
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Postby DK » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:33 pm

davidmarver wrote:
DK wrote:It's hard for me to say that guys like the Beatles are great songwriters

:-b


Well-constructed argument. What I liked most is that you took the quote directly in context.

Nicely done. ;-D
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Postby Another Blown Save » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:27 pm

DK wrote:
Dan Lambskin wrote:It's hard for me to say that guys like the Beatles are great songwriters, since most of their songs aren't very deep when it comes to lyricism. They've got excellent music, and it's very catchy, don't get me wrong. I like the Beatles a lot. That said, their songs have as many lyrics as one verse by guys like Sage.

I mean, it's great stuff, no doubt, don't get me wrong. The Beatles do have some examples of great lyricism (Penny Lane springs to mind). But I think lyricists today are more skilled in terms of wordplay.

I don't see how Lennon and McCartney have porr lyricism, esp. Lennon who wrote many great songs in his solo carrier.
Songs like A Day in the Life have great lyrics.

And I don't know how lyrics today are more skilled. I personally believe that no artist comes to close to guys like Bob Dylan, lyrics wise.
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Postby DK » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:05 am

Another Blown Save wrote:
DK wrote:
Dan Lambskin wrote:It's hard for me to say that guys like the Beatles are great songwriters, since most of their songs aren't very deep when it comes to lyricism. They've got excellent music, and it's very catchy, don't get me wrong. I like the Beatles a lot. That said, their songs have as many lyrics as one verse by guys like Sage.

I mean, it's great stuff, no doubt, don't get me wrong. The Beatles do have some examples of great lyricism (Penny Lane springs to mind). But I think lyricists today are more skilled in terms of wordplay.

I don't see how Lennon and McCartney have porr lyricism, esp. Lennon who wrote many great songs in his solo carrier.
Songs like A Day in the Life have great lyrics.

And I don't know how lyrics today are more skilled. I personally believe that no artist comes to close to guys like Bob Dylan, lyrics wise.


And I agree. If you notice I say to Art that I like his list (having Dylan as 3 of the top 5- :-b ). My only problem with the Beatles is not that their words aren't well-written - it's that there are barely any of them.

I mean, they're great songs, and there is some wordplay, but take this for instance:

The Beatles wrote:Got a good reason for taking the easy way out,
Got a good reason for taking the easy way out - now,
She was a day tripper, one way ticket, yeah,
It took me so long to find out, and I found out.
She’s a big teaser, she took me half the way there,
She’s a big teaser, she took me half the way there - now,
She was a day tripper, one way ticket, yeah.
It took me so long to find out, and I found out.
Tried to please her, she only played one night stands,
Tried to please her, she only played one night stands - now,
She was a day tripper, Sunday driver, yeah,
It took me so long to find out, and I found out.
Day tripper, yeah.


A very popular song - I mean, I like it myself. But here's the thing - that's the whole song. That's it. I mean, this is a less than a verse to a lot of artists, and sometimes less than half a verse. Not to mention that a lot of what is said there is simply repeated. Counting, there are only 6 or 7 different lines in that entire song.

Before I sound like a Beatles hater- I love the Beatles. Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Ringo revolutionized rock 'n' roll. They're probably the best band of their genre of all time. They dominate all competition in their genre. I just think that when you span genres there are guys better at certain facets of lyricism.
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Postby bceagles04 » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:11 am

DK wrote:
Another Blown Save wrote:
DK wrote:
Dan Lambskin wrote:It's hard for me to say that guys like the Beatles are great songwriters, since most of their songs aren't very deep when it comes to lyricism. They've got excellent music, and it's very catchy, don't get me wrong. I like the Beatles a lot. That said, their songs have as many lyrics as one verse by guys like Sage.

I mean, it's great stuff, no doubt, don't get me wrong. The Beatles do have some examples of great lyricism (Penny Lane springs to mind). But I think lyricists today are more skilled in terms of wordplay.

I don't see how Lennon and McCartney have porr lyricism, esp. Lennon who wrote many great songs in his solo carrier.
Songs like A Day in the Life have great lyrics.

And I don't know how lyrics today are more skilled. I personally believe that no artist comes to close to guys like Bob Dylan, lyrics wise.


And I agree. If you notice I say to Art that I like his list (having Dylan as 3 of the top 5- :-b ). My only problem with the Beatles is not that their words aren't well-written - it's that there are barely any of them.

I mean, they're great songs, and there is some wordplay, but take this for instance:

The Beatles wrote:Got a good reason for taking the easy way out,
Got a good reason for taking the easy way out - now,
She was a day tripper, one way ticket, yeah,
It took me so long to find out, and I found out.
She’s a big teaser, she took me half the way there,
She’s a big teaser, she took me half the way there - now,
She was a day tripper, one way ticket, yeah.
It took me so long to find out, and I found out.
Tried to please her, she only played one night stands,
Tried to please her, she only played one night stands - now,
She was a day tripper, Sunday driver, yeah,
It took me so long to find out, and I found out.
Day tripper, yeah.


A very popular song - I mean, I like it myself. But here's the thing - that's the whole song. That's it. I mean, this is a less than a verse to a lot of artists, and sometimes less than half a verse. Not to mention that a lot of what is said there is simply repeated. Counting, there are only 6 or 7 different lines in that entire song.

Before I sound like a Beatles hater- I love the Beatles. Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Ringo revolutionized rock 'n' roll. They're probably the best band of their genre of all time. They dominate all competition in their genre. I just think that when you span genres there are guys better at certain facets of lyricism.


very well put...i agree 100%.

But in all reality...you cannot say that one person is the greatest lyricist of all time. Everyone is going to have that special song or artist that touches them in a way no one else can. "Life by the Drop" -SRV is an example of a song that has incredible meaning to me and is just a fabulous song. He is not the greatest writer of all time, not even close, but that one song just does it for me.

We all have our favorites and the people we think are the best, but it is pointless to argue about who is the best.
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Postby Another Blown Save » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:15 am

DK wrote:A very popular song - I mean, I like it myself. But here's the thing - that's the whole song. That's it. I mean, this is a less than a verse to a lot of artists, and sometimes less than half a verse. Not to mention that a lot of what is said there is simply repeated. Counting, there are only 6 or 7 different lines in that entire song.

I agree that some of the Beatles have the simplest lyrics, but I don't think Lennon and McCartney were trying to write good lyrics for those songs.
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Postby bceagles04 » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:19 am

DK wrote:
Another Blown Save wrote:
DK wrote:
Dan Lambskin wrote:It's hard for me to say that guys like the Beatles are great songwriters, since most of their songs aren't very deep when it comes to lyricism. They've got excellent music, and it's very catchy, don't get me wrong. I like the Beatles a lot. That said, their songs have as many lyrics as one verse by guys like Sage.

I mean, it's great stuff, no doubt, don't get me wrong. The Beatles do have some examples of great lyricism (Penny Lane springs to mind). But I think lyricists today are more skilled in terms of wordplay.

I don't see how Lennon and McCartney have porr lyricism, esp. Lennon who wrote many great songs in his solo carrier.
Songs like A Day in the Life have great lyrics.

And I don't know how lyrics today are more skilled. I personally believe that no artist comes to close to guys like Bob Dylan, lyrics wise.


And I agree. If you notice I say to Art that I like his list (having Dylan as 3 of the top 5- :-b ). My only problem with the Beatles is not that their words aren't well-written - it's that there are barely any of them.

I mean, they're great songs, and there is some wordplay, but take this for instance:

The Beatles wrote:Got a good reason for taking the easy way out,
Got a good reason for taking the easy way out - now,
She was a day tripper, one way ticket, yeah,
It took me so long to find out, and I found out.
She’s a big teaser, she took me half the way there,
She’s a big teaser, she took me half the way there - now,
She was a day tripper, one way ticket, yeah.
It took me so long to find out, and I found out.
Tried to please her, she only played one night stands,
Tried to please her, she only played one night stands - now,
She was a day tripper, Sunday driver, yeah,
It took me so long to find out, and I found out.
Day tripper, yeah.


A very popular song - I mean, I like it myself. But here's the thing - that's the whole song. That's it. I mean, this is a less than a verse to a lot of artists, and sometimes less than half a verse. Not to mention that a lot of what is said there is simply repeated. Counting, there are only 6 or 7 different lines in that entire song.

Before I sound like a Beatles hater- I love the Beatles. Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Ringo revolutionized rock 'n' roll. They're probably the best band of their genre of all time. They dominate all competition in their genre. I just think that when you span genres there are guys better at certain facets of lyricism.


very well put...i agree 100%.

But in all reality...you cannot say that one person is the greatest lyricist of all time. Everyone is going to have that special song or artist that touches them in a way no one else can. "Life by the Drop" -SRV is an example of a song that has incredible meaning to me and is just a fabulous song. He is not the greatest writer of all time, not even close, but that one song just does it for me.

We all have our favorites and the people we think are the best, but it is pointless to argue about who is the best.
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Postby davidmarver » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:32 am

DK wrote:
Another Blown Save wrote:
DK wrote:
Dan Lambskin wrote:It's hard for me to say that guys like the Beatles are great songwriters, since most of their songs aren't very deep when it comes to lyricism. They've got excellent music, and it's very catchy, don't get me wrong. I like the Beatles a lot. That said, their songs have as many lyrics as one verse by guys like Sage.

I mean, it's great stuff, no doubt, don't get me wrong. The Beatles do have some examples of great lyricism (Penny Lane springs to mind). But I think lyricists today are more skilled in terms of wordplay.

I don't see how Lennon and McCartney have porr lyricism, esp. Lennon who wrote many great songs in his solo carrier.
Songs like A Day in the Life have great lyrics.

And I don't know how lyrics today are more skilled. I personally believe that no artist comes to close to guys like Bob Dylan, lyrics wise.


And I agree. If you notice I say to Art that I like his list (having Dylan as 3 of the top 5- :-b ). My only problem with the Beatles is not that their words aren't well-written - it's that there are barely any of them.

I mean, they're great songs, and there is some wordplay, but take this for instance:

The Beatles wrote:Got a good reason for taking the easy way out,
Got a good reason for taking the easy way out - now,
She was a day tripper, one way ticket, yeah,
It took me so long to find out, and I found out.
She’s a big teaser, she took me half the way there,
She’s a big teaser, she took me half the way there - now,
She was a day tripper, one way ticket, yeah.
It took me so long to find out, and I found out.
Tried to please her, she only played one night stands,
Tried to please her, she only played one night stands - now,
She was a day tripper, Sunday driver, yeah,
It took me so long to find out, and I found out.
Day tripper, yeah.


A very popular song - I mean, I like it myself. But here's the thing - that's the whole song. That's it. I mean, this is a less than a verse to a lot of artists, and sometimes less than half a verse. Not to mention that a lot of what is said there is simply repeated. Counting, there are only 6 or 7 different lines in that entire song.

Before I sound like a Beatles hater- I love the Beatles. Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Ringo revolutionized rock 'n' roll. They're probably the best band of their genre of all time. They dominate all competition in their genre. I just think that when you span genres there are guys better at certain facets of lyricism.

Here's what you're forgetting about the Beatles' songs. They are all relatively short, so they can't logistically fit in that many words. They still sing the same amount of time as any other rock band if you went by words per minute of song.

Secondly, comparing the Beatles lyrics to rap artists lyrics (which you did in past posts) isn't fair either. The Beatles actually sing their lyrics; it's a lot harder to cram in words when you sing that it is when you speak quickly (like in rap). The Beatles' also leave time for solos and instrumentals because they are musically that good/creative that they needed to showcase that; singing over their solos would de-tract from their music. Penalizing the Beatles for not having enough lyrics, for singing too slowly, or having instrumental parts of songs simply isn't fair, nor does it make too much of sense in this case.
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Postby Phatferd » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:03 am

I seriously cannot believe people are suggesting the Beatles lyrics are simple. I truly believe they are the greatest band of all time (directly influenced music from that point on) and their lyrics are pretty deep and well written.

She’s not a girl who misses much.
Do do do do do do do do
She’s well acquainted with the touch of the velvet hand
Like a lizard on a window pane.
The man in the crowd with the multicolored mirrors
On his hobnail boots
Lying with his eyes while his hands are busy
Working overtime
A soap impression of his wife which he ate
And donated to the National Trust.
I need a fix ‘cause I’m going down.
Down to the bits that I left uptown.
I need a fix ‘cause I’m going down.
Mother Superior jump the gun
Mother Superior jump the gun
Mother Superior jump the gun
Mother Superior jump the gun.
Happiness is a warm gun
Happiness is a warm gun
When I hold you in my arms
And I feel my finger on your trigger
I know no one can do me no harm
Because happiness is a warm gun.
Yes it is.

I am he
As you are he
As you are me
And we are all together.
See how they run
Like pigs from a gun
See how they fly. I’m crying.
Sitting on a cornflake - waiting for the van to come.
Corporation teeshirt, stupid bloody
Tuesday man you been a naughty boy
You let your face grow long.
I am the eggman oh, they are the eggman -
Oh I am the walrus GOO GOO G’JOOB.
Mr. City policeman sitting pretty little policeman in a row,
See how they fly
Like Lucy in the sky
See how they run. I’m crying - I’m crying I’m crying.
Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog’s eye.
Crabalocker fishwife pornographic
Priestess boy you been a naughty girl,
You let your knickers down.
I am the eggman oh, they are the eggmen -
Oh I am the walrus. GOO GOO G’JOOB.
Sitting in an English garden waiting for the sun,
If the sun don’t come, you get a tan from
Standing in the English rain.
I am the eggman, oh, they are the eggmen -
Oh I am the walrus. G’JOOB, G’GOO, G’JOOB.
Expert texpert choking smokers
Don’t you think the joker laughs at you? Ha ha ha!
See how they smile,
Like pigs in a sty,
See how they snied. I’m crying.
Semoline pilchards climbing up the Eiffel Tower.
Elementary penguin singing Hare Khrishna
Man you should have seen them
Kicking Edgar Allen Poe.
I am the eggman oh, they are they eggmen -
Oh I am the walrus GOO GOO GOO JOOB
GOO GOO GOO JOOB GOO GOO
GOOOOOOOOOOOJOOOOOB.


Day after day, alone on a hill,
The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still
But nobody wants to know him,
They can see he’s just a fool
And he never gives an answer.
But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eys in his head see the world spinning round.
Well on the way, head in a cloud,
The man of a thousand voices talking perfectly loud.
But nobody ever hears him
Or the sound he appearss to make
And he never seems to notice.
But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world spinning round.
And nobody seems to like him,
They can tell what he wants to do
And he never shows his feelings.
But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world spinning round.
He never listens to them,
He knows that they’re the fools
They don’t like him. The fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world spinning round.
You have no frame of reference, Donny. You're like a child who walks into the middle of a movie...
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Postby 3 run homer » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:29 am

I think Jimi Hendrix and Stevie Ray Vaughn deserve some props. Sure they did other peoples tunes but the stuff they wrote and how they arranged re makes was awesome.
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