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Postby hybrid » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:15 pm

Spiegs1106 wrote:I would be against my child being taught by this teacher. I feel that in our society, children choose to be gay or different because they see it as accepted or the other way down the road.

I feel our society or at least my neck of the woods...massachusetts...puts too much into "Its ok to be gay"


This makes almost no sense what so ever. If someone "chooses" to be gay, they aren't gay, it's as simple as that. Also not sure how some place can be too OK with it. It's like some place to being to OK with being black or disabled.

Of course all that is mute in your eyes, as you probably think it's a decision.
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Postby Madison » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:37 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
TheRock wrote:
Madison wrote:However, when to explain things to kids is very important. I want my son to know the dangers of alcohol and smoking, but even at 7 years old I'm not handing him a beer or a cigarette. Both age, and maturity level come into play when dealing with things of this nature, and I just don't feel that most 5 year olds are mature enough to be able to understand why their male teacher is now a female.


Mad really hit it on the head here, I'm sure all parents have their own very strong opinions and reasons for when their child is ready to learn things about the world. Just because some people don't mind teaching their 5 year olds anything and everything doesn't give them the right to expose everyone else's child to it to force the issue.


But does the fact that some people don't want to teach their children something give those people the right to deny someone else employment? the way I see it, a person's right to live their life however they desire (as long as they are not causing physical harm to someone else) trumps a parent's right to keep their child sheltered from the reality of life in the 21st century.


This has nothing to do with not wanting to teach a child something, or keeping them sheltered, and you seem to be missing that fact completely. We are talking about 5 year old kids here for crying out loud. Would you hand a 5 year old kid a beer, shot of Vodka, a cigarette, or a joint? Would you tell your kid at 5 years old that there is no Santa? Would you explain sex in it's complete form to a 5 year old? 5 years old is certainly not old enough for any kid to fully understand anything I listed. Sex change operations fall into that catagory as well.

You are correct that anyone can choose to live their lives the way they want. He wanted a sex change, fine with me, but at the same time, he chose to have the sex change and should be well prepared to live his/her life accordingly. If that means having to switch schools (And would that really be a big deal? There are elementary schools within driving distance everywhere, and he/she wouldn't have to deal with this problem at all.), or even move up to middle school, then what's the problem? He/She chose to do this, so they should accept the responsibility for those actions.

The school system trying to force 5 year olds to understand something that is ridiculously beyond their comprehension level isn't exactly the smartest thing to do. Then again, schools keep proving they have no idea what they are doing all the time, so I really shouldn't be too surprised they went this way in this situation.
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Postby Simulacrum » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:56 am

I agree with DK here. ;-D

I joke around about gayness and the rest a good deal, but only because I joke about everything. Gay people are pjust as good as everyone else, and people who decide to change their sexes are still people too. In my opinion being born gay is no different than being born whatever race you happen to be born. Men who are living in the bodies of women or vice versa deserve to have the right to change their genders if it's in their power to do so.

However, I don't think it's appropriate for her to be re-hired to work with 5 year old kids. Maybe if it was high school or something, but parents shouldn't be forced into having talks like this with their kids too early.
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Postby dannyolbb » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:00 am

I feel really sorry for McBeth. The woman is 71 years old - she just had her final operation. She’s obviously been living with a ton of anxiety and confusion and inner turmoil for her whole life, and finally had the courage to do what makes her happy. She’s been an excellent teacher for many years, the students love her, and she’s got one of the best teaching records in the state. Maybe you don't realize how difficult it is to get a good sub, but this woman is a Godsend. If she wants to deal with k-6, more power to her. The kids probably wouldn't have even known if the people trying to get her fired hadn't made such a big deal about this.

I’m sure at 71 McBeth is past caring what other people think...but still, it’s probably got to be a downer during a wonderful period of her life.


(Art is right, completely.)
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Postby dannyolbb » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:04 am

I see in some comments that this is getting twisted out of recognition. Some quick facts:

1. She teaches anywhere from Kindergarten to 6th grade, though mostly deals with little kids.

2. The young kids won't notice because they probably haven't seen her before and because they don't pay that much attention to grown-ups anyway.

3. The only way that anyone knows about this is because the religious fundamentalists are making a big deal about it. If you don't want your kid to know that sex changes exist, fine. I'm not going to tell them. But when you make our kids' school into a national story, the kids are going to find out. And then - and probably only then - will the kids learn about gender reassignment surgery.
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Postby TheRock » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:13 am

dannyolbb wrote:2. The young kids won't notice because they probably haven't seen her before and because they don't pay that much attention to grown-ups anyway.


Huh? I can't remember the names of any of my neighbors but I can tell you every teacher I had in elementary school. Their worlds are much much smaller than ours. And yes, they have seen her ebefore. That's the lead paragraph of the story, she's going back to the same school.

dannyolbb wrote:3. The only way that anyone knows about this is because the religious fundamentalists are making a big deal about it. If you don't want your kid to know that sex changes exist, fine. I'm not going to tell them. But when you make our kids' school into a national story, the kids are going to find out. And then - and probably only then - will the kids learn about gender reassignment surgery.


I hate this tactic. Someone disagrees with the tolerance agenda and they must be some whack job. Obviously. Slack-jawed semi-literate yokels, that's the only people that don't think like us. Nobody is advocating pretending things don't exist. But if it's ok with you, I'd prefer to decide when to expose my children to controversial topics, not have someone take it upon themselves to do it for me. Can we let kids be kids for a change? Do we need to begin the indoctrination that early in their lives?
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Postby dannyolbb » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:20 am

TheRock wrote:
dannyolbb wrote:2. The young kids won't notice because they probably haven't seen her before and because they don't pay that much attention to grown-ups anyway.


Huh? I can't remember the names of any of my neighbors but I can tell you every teacher I had in elementary school. Their worlds are much much smaller than ours. And yes, they have seen her ebefore. That's the lead paragraph of the story, she's going back to the same school.


I'm a little confused.

The kindergarteners haven't seen her before. And she's a sub. Do you remember your subs? Weird.

therock wrote:
dannyolbb wrote:3. The only way that anyone knows about this is because the religious fundamentalists are making a big deal about it. If you don't want your kid to know that sex changes exist, fine. I'm not going to tell them. But when you make our kids' school into a national story, the kids are going to find out. And then - and probably only then - will the kids learn about gender reassignment surgery.


I hate this tactic. Someone disagrees with the tolerance agenda and they must be some whack job. Obviously. Slack-jawed semi-literate yokels, that's the only people that don't think like us. Nobody is advocating pretending things don't exist. But if it's ok with you, I'd prefer to decide when to expose my children to controversial topics, not have someone take it upon themselves to do it for me. Can we let kids be kids for a change? Do we need to begin the indoctrination that early in their lives?




What tactic? When I said they were fundamentalists? Isn't that what they call themselves? Honestly - I don't understand. What should I call them? And did you really just ignore the entire point I was making?
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Postby bronxxbomber » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:35 am

Wow, what a wierd story.
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Postby acsguitar » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:52 pm

I can agree to disagree on this story
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Postby thomasps3 » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:07 pm

Damn, can i get some of this? She is one woman I definitely want to tag!

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