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Greinke mystery

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Postby acsguitar » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:06 pm

Phatferd wrote:Sounds like someone needs some Wellbutrin.
:-D
I'm too lazy to make a sig at the moment
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Postby tal1286 » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:24 pm

I don't remember where I read this but it's a very interesting commentary on this.

Someone said earlier in this thread that you would get depressed by playing for the royals. Well, maybe that's it. This article I read makes an interesting observation. They say that Greinke is a very very cerebral pitcher who takes his time trying to figure out how to get people out and uses all his pitches.

REMEMBERED!
http://badaltitude.baseballtoaster.com/archives/324047.html

If you were inclined to go looking for "clues" in the scouting material published about Greinke over the years, you would find some eyebrow-raising things. In 2003, the Baseball America Prospect Handbook wrote of Greinke: "a workaholic who studies hitters and figures to succeed with his intellect and command." The 2005 Baseball Prospectus rhapsodizes, "we have seen the future of pitching, and his name is Zack Greinke," and goes on at length about the then-21-year-old's artistry at changing speeds and inventing new pitches to keep hitters off-balance. But suddenly the tone changes in the 2006 Baseball Register: "At times seems bored on the mound." OK, let's take a moment to wildly speculate. Has being stuck with the Royals stolen Zack Greinke's passion for the game?


The article writes about how we see players in the other leagues whine (not saying Greinke is whining but...) about their teams and leave or hold out or whatever but says this is rare in the bigs:

But baseball, for whatever reason, has been relatively free of this sort of problem, which when you think of it is kind of surprising given how long MLB organizations have control over their drafted players compared to franchises in the other major team sports. Perhaps it's because most pro ballplayers have to spend several years in the minors before they surface in The Show, engendering both loyalty to their organization and appreciation for the opportunity to play for any big league team (even the Royals). Greinke, of course, spent a microscopic amount of time in the minors (180 innings).


So Greinke isn't loyal to the Royals like other players are to their teams but the issues apparently don't stop there. The pitching coach on the Royals is a total doof. Remember how Greinke is a cerebral pitcher, well...one of the commenters on the article has this to say:

Soren Petro, one of the local sports radio guys here in KC has his own theory. Apparently, Guy Hansen,the pitching coach last year (and possibly Buddy Bell), told Greinke to throw nothing but fastballs the first three innings of every start. Obviously, the results were atrocious. Toward the end of the year, Greinke decided to just pitch the way he had the year before when he had a 4/1 K/BB ratio and pitched fairly well. Petro thinks that Bell might be putting him on the same program again and Greinke's just fed up. I know I am. You finally find a young kid who understands what it means to "pitch", has great success at every level, and then you decided to turn him into a thrower? It's totally asinine. Looking at the Royals' record of developing pitching over the last decade, I've got to think it has something to do witht their mismanagement of Greinke in this situation.


Interesting theory I am inclined to look at closely since there is a total lack of other legit options to believe besides his being depressed.
Image

Leyland said, "We thought we were getting a hell of a player, but Neifi simply did not perform well."

really?
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Postby tal1286 » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:18 pm

tal1286 wrote:I don't remember where I read this but it's a very interesting commentary on this.

Someone said earlier in this thread that you would get depressed by playing for the royals. Well, maybe that's it. This article I read makes an interesting observation. They say that Greinke is a very very cerebral pitcher who takes his time trying to figure out how to get people out and uses all his pitches.

REMEMBERED!
http://badaltitude.baseballtoaster.com/archives/324047.html

If you were inclined to go looking for "clues" in the scouting material published about Greinke over the years, you would find some eyebrow-raising things. In 2003, the Baseball America Prospect Handbook wrote of Greinke: "a workaholic who studies hitters and figures to succeed with his intellect and command." The 2005 Baseball Prospectus rhapsodizes, "we have seen the future of pitching, and his name is Zack Greinke," and goes on at length about the then-21-year-old's artistry at changing speeds and inventing new pitches to keep hitters off-balance. But suddenly the tone changes in the 2006 Baseball Register: "At times seems bored on the mound." OK, let's take a moment to wildly speculate. Has being stuck with the Royals stolen Zack Greinke's passion for the game?


The article writes about how we see players in the other leagues whine (not saying Greinke is whining but...) about their teams and leave or hold out or whatever but says this is rare in the bigs:

But baseball, for whatever reason, has been relatively free of this sort of problem, which when you think of it is kind of surprising given how long MLB organizations have control over their drafted players compared to franchises in the other major team sports. Perhaps it's because most pro ballplayers have to spend several years in the minors before they surface in The Show, engendering both loyalty to their organization and appreciation for the opportunity to play for any big league team (even the Royals). Greinke, of course, spent a microscopic amount of time in the minors (180 innings).


So Greinke isn't loyal to the Royals like other players are to their teams but the issues apparently don't stop there. The pitching coach on the Royals is a total doof. Remember how Greinke is a cerebral pitcher, well...one of the commenters on the article has this to say:

Soren Petro, one of the local sports radio guys here in KC has his own theory. Apparently, Guy Hansen,the pitching coach last year (and possibly Buddy Bell), told Greinke to throw nothing but fastballs the first three innings of every start. Obviously, the results were atrocious. Toward the end of the year, Greinke decided to just pitch the way he had the year before when he had a 4/1 K/BB ratio and pitched fairly well. Petro thinks that Bell might be putting him on the same program again and Greinke's just fed up. I know I am. You finally find a young kid who understands what it means to "pitch", has great success at every level, and then you decided to turn him into a thrower? It's totally asinine. Looking at the Royals' record of developing pitching over the last decade, I've got to think it has something to do witht their mismanagement of Greinke in this situation.


Interesting theory I am inclined to look at closely since there is a total lack of other legit options to believe besides his being depressed.


Looks like this was right

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com
Image

Leyland said, "We thought we were getting a hell of a player, but Neifi simply did not perform well."

really?
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Postby orange12 » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:12 pm

If you were a top pitching prospect which would you hate more? Being developed by an incompetent organization like the Royals or overworked by a team like the Cubs?
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Postby klvrdude » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:33 am

Or is this just a power play to be traded????

I'm not too keen on him in a Royals uni, but he could be a steal once traded.
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Postby nikku88 » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:39 am

Maybe he feels bad because of how many teams of mine he killed last year.
Image
My apologies. I have a nephew named Anfernee, and I know how mad he gets when I call him Anthony. Almost as mad as I get when I think about the fact that my sister named him Anfernee.
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Postby hybrid » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:41 am

I hope not cause I think he is a very rare pitcher ad could strive. But that isn't worth his well being as a person, he is a smart enough individual to figure out what is the best for him in the end.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:28 am

Maybe he is depressed because he is posting near 6 ERAs?

...or maybe he simply suffers from depression or generalized anxiety disorder, which is no small thing and can be quite debilitating.
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Postby hybrid » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:27 am

"The Kansas City Star's Bob Dutton reports Kansas City Royals SP Zack Greinke is undergoing counseling from a sports psychologist near his home in Orlando, Fla., to treat longstanding emotional issues."

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/14043050.htm


Hopefully the kid will fully get over this and not miss to much time.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:04 am

I'm a week or so behind on the Fantasy411Podcasts and was checking them out last night and they were suggesting that the nature of the problem is that he doesn't want to pitch but wants to HIT, a problem which was perhaps exacerbated by jacking a tater in his first AB in interleague play? :-?
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