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Team Defense.... Why is this not taken into consideration?

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Postby Grouperman941 » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:57 pm

So the question is, "How do you quantify team defense when ranking a particular pitcher?" Right?

I wing it by looking at the depth charts and using player reputations for fielding, but there have to be real numbers to use.
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Postby Grouperman941 » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:10 pm

nuggets wrote:Even if a guy is a flyball pitcher, wouldn't having good outfielders like Edmonds and A. Jones improve a pitchers stats?


That's how I sort of factor defense in now -- ground ball pitcher with a great MI has his whip and era bumped down a little. Flyball pitcher with a burner in CF, same thing.
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Postby Thursday » Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:37 am

Drdobs wrote:
Thursday wrote:Eh, it's a non-factor. As long as the team behind the pitcher is playing the position they've played their entire lives, then there really isn't going to be a problem. These guys are major leaguers for a reason. Besides, if they boot a ball or two, the runs will be unearned, and won't count on your pitcher's ERA anyway. Don't think too hard about team defense, it's really unneccesary.


Wow, to me... this quote might as well be...

"Don't worry too much about what 1st baseman you draft, essentially as long as the guy has been playing baseball his entire life at that position, he's probably going to be a pretty good hitter and it may only be a difference of a few hits here and a few hits there"

I mean, I'm sorry but I can't help but disagree with this post tremendously. I think it matters GREATLY how strong the defense is and the reality is that it's not about booting balls for Unearned Runs, but about balls that are got to that otherwise wouldn't. Besides, just because a guy boots a ball doesn't mean the pitcher is not subject to more walks and hits in the inning that hurt the WHIP and hurt his chances for a win...


Eh, out of context a little. Doesn't apply to offense. Look, there's a reason each dude is where he is on a major league roster. One reason is because he's proven his skills time and time again on several levels to be a compotent fielder. I know for a fact that one of the reasons the Devil Rays are reluctant to bring up BJ Upton is because of his defense, and that's a valid reason in my book.

I'm saying that most guys at positions are compotent fielders, and are on the same level. Sure you'll find the guys who win Gold Gloves, and some guys boot on a constant basis, but generally, they all can handle themselves on a field of play.

Hopefully my point was clarified.
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Postby ukrneal » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:40 am

Measuring it is difficult. You can use errors and range as factors. Some of it is luck. It is pretty clear to me that Glavine suffered a couple of years with the Mets due to poor defense and I think that was predictable.
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Postby Matthias » Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:53 am

Thursday wrote:Eh, out of context a little. Doesn't apply to offense. Look, there's a reason each dude is where he is on a major league roster. One reason is because he's proven his skills time and time again on several levels to be a compotent fielder. I know for a fact that one of the reasons the Devil Rays are reluctant to bring up BJ Upton is because of his defense, and that's a valid reason in my book.

I'm saying that most guys at positions are compotent fielders, and are on the same level. Sure you'll find the guys who win Gold Gloves, and some guys boot on a constant basis, but generally, they all can handle themselves on a field of play.

Hopefully my point was clarified.


I think you're fighting a losing war.
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Postby Thursday » Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:54 am

Matthias wrote:
Thursday wrote:Eh, out of context a little. Doesn't apply to offense. Look, there's a reason each dude is where he is on a major league roster. One reason is because he's proven his skills time and time again on several levels to be a compotent fielder. I know for a fact that one of the reasons the Devil Rays are reluctant to bring up BJ Upton is because of his defense, and that's a valid reason in my book.

I'm saying that most guys at positions are compotent fielders, and are on the same level. Sure you'll find the guys who win Gold Gloves, and some guys boot on a constant basis, but generally, they all can handle themselves on a field of play.

Hopefully my point was clarified.


I think you're fighting a losing war.


I'll agree there. !+)
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Postby AcidRock23 » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:01 am

I agree that defense is very important and can't be overlooked for fantasy purposes. The Cubs team xERA at Wrigley as 3.48 but the IRL ERA was 4.02. Their SS/2B combo for much of last year was the nimble Nefi Perez and Todd Walker combo.

While Walker only made 6 E all year (as he pointed out recently in the Tribune...) and pretty much everyone likes his bat, is it worth it to have a limited range 2B in the middle, not to mention middle aged SS? I dunno, a couple of runs w/ bat help but sacrificing your defense is not a winning idea for the long run. I can't see how it hurts knowing that as draft season approaches... :-?
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